Hudson Canyon targeted as a Marine Protected Area

Get ready anglers as Hudson Canyon becomes the first MPA, aka, Marine Protected Area. This podcast brings some light to this issue that northeast anglers will be facing moving forward.

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The Opening

[00:00:00] George Scocca: Hello and welcome everyone to another episode of the New York fishing podcast. My name is George Scocca I will be your host. I first like to apologize for the absence. I am a one man band show and comes to this podcast. So I will try and, and bring more timely events in this show in this particular episode.

We speak with a member of the ASA American sport fishing association about the recent application to make Cutson canyon and MPA, which is a Marine protected area. Now this is these things are like, I don’t know. too much about, honestly, they’re so con I’m just, I’m gonna say convoluted. I mean, they could be a million different things.

They could be. Okay. You can’t commercial fish there. . You can’t recreational fish there. Okay. We’re doing this to make sure that there’s no drilling. That’s gonna go on. Why they’d ever be drown in tangents beyond me, but there’s a lot of different reasons. So I went out and I reached out to an organization, which, you don’t know, but behind the scenes, these folks are out there, protecting your rights as an angler.

And, you know, I always talk about this and I know folks kind of want to. You know, it’s fishing. You don’t wanna be involved in this kind of stuff, but you have to be, if you are not, you’re gonna be losing out. It’s your, it’s your own fault? You know, I saw it before we were represented, then I saw during representation and now.

I don’t know, it seems, you know, everybody’s got their own thing and their own opinion and their own platform now. And they kind of feel like that’s good enough, but it’s not, you have to follow up on the petition, send an email. Anyway, I, the bottom line is I I’m gonna be bringing you the interview right after this opened, but I did want [00:02:00] to mention we lost an icon in the industry, in my opinion.

And his name was Chet Wilcox he was the, the owner of B, B tackle out in Center Moriches and he was just a great guy. He’s one of the founding members of the New York fishing tackle, trade association. He was a true Patriot, the nicest guy. I mean, I would call him every, every day almost, and he’d have a joke of the day waiting for me.

And it was he was always a great guy and he, I, I just want you folks to know this guy was out there fighting for your rights. Like you don’t know what goes on. It’s the most thankless position you could ever be in. I’ve been there. I was there with them and. But he was there and I’m sad to see him go.

He, he was part of generations of the Wilcox family that dated back. I, I believe three generations. So Chet I know you’re not going to be on a party boat up there in the sky, but I’m sure you’re throwing plugs somewhere. At Stripe bass. So I did want to mention, talk a little bit about the fishing anyway.

It’s obvious we got a lot of Striped bass, a lot of big Striped bass. You know spoons are back. Everybody kind of acts like this is like a new fishery idea. You know, we have fishing spoons, I don’t know, 40 years ago, whatever it was, but now they’ve made their way back. And they they’re account for a lot of big fish, but it does seem like the fish are now changing over the bait.I think that’s, what’s going to be happening. There’s been some huge fish taken out the west sound. I, I mean, there’s just, there’s big bears everywhere. And now. The slots are starting to filter in. So, and it, the surprise to me, anyhow, are these big blue fish that are out in the west sound? I haven’t seen them here at Smithtown bay, but I have a beautiful [00:04:00] surprise here at Smithtown bay.

As we have a ton of flu here. I mean, it’s not a ton I’m exaggerating, but for me, it’s a ton in comparison to what I’ve seen the last couple years. So it, you know, that pretty much wraps up the sound. Then, then down on the sound shore, down on the north fork, I was reading captain Mike’s report from.

I don’t know, one of those windy days over the weekend. And he had keeper, weak fish, Stripe bass, and some pretty big fluke he had a 26 ER in there. So I guess things are starting to pick up out on the north fork. I mean, it’s very encouraging. I saw, I actually saw a party boat in Smithtown. Fishing for fluke, been a long time since I’ve seen that.

Things are kind of looking up. We have the sea bass season opening up in a couple days. I believe it is. And you know, the fluke fishing really does seem to be good around the island. What else can I say? Surf fishing is great, you know, for the guy, for the Sharpies, you know what they’re doing?

They’ve been doing real well on big fish. So that’s going to be my basic round. Oh. Who could forget their, the bluefin are in their back. Who hopefully it’s going to be another season. Like last year, it sures setting up to look like one. But we’ll have to see what’s going to happen with these bluefin, but my guess is with the amount of data that we’re seeing.

Those fish are going to hold here for, for the whole entire season. Once again, I, when I go back think back to, you know, 30 years ago, those fish would come in and they would stay and they would just, just as long as it was bait there. They would never leave. And hopefully that’s what we are going to see again this season.

The Interview

I’m going to move on to the interview and I hope you folks learn something about MPAs. We, I, I know I learned a lot and what I learned really [00:06:00] is that I know nothing about them. And the other thing is that the process of choosing these areas. It will be surprising to some and kind of expected to others with that said Mike Leonard from the ASA, I would like to welcome Mike Leonard.

He is the VP of government affairs over at the ASA. That’s the American sport fishing association. Mike, welcome to the show and thanks for coming.

[00:06:35] Mike Leonard: absolutely George, thanks to being here as an emerging, aspiring podcaster myself. I’m thrilled to be on someone else’s podcast and be on the other end of it.

Well, so that’s great. I’m happy to be here.

[00:06:46] George Scocca: Well, you’re going to have to tell our listeners before we get off, how they can how they can read you. And also I’ll make sure we get that up on our website. For the some information to the listeners, ASA is the American sport fishing. Association. I know many ha of, you know, of them have heard of them have dealt with them many, probably even members, but many of you don’t and I’m sure, you know, the I a show they’re behind the I a show, but they do a lot more than just the I a show.

In the saltwater fishing arena, which we all know. There’s regulations. Every day something’s changing in our fishery and it needs to be addressed. And we don’t have many advocates. And I’m, I’m not going to say he is an advocate, but they are an advocate for sport fishermen. I can tell you that I’ve been a supporter and a member for the longest time ever, even they have a few other splinter organizations, which are big, which I also join in support.

I appreciate my coming on here. They have a lot more knowledge. I know Mike’s going to have more knowledge than I do about my biggest [00:08:00] fear that I have spoken about for years and written. and that’s these MPAs these zones, basically that get set up by the government. We we’ll find out from Mike and they pick an area and they tell you, you can’t either you can’t fish there or they heavily regulated or I really don’t know.

And that’s why I have Mike on here to explain what we can expect because they have chosen. None other than the Hudson canyon to be an MPA. So, Mike, can you explain to us what is an MPA?

[00:08:37] Mike Leonard: Yeah, so simple question. Probably not a simple answer. And I guess first order to appreciate the kind words about ASA and your longstanding support.

You know, there’s a lot of challenging issues out there. We try and stay on top of as many of them as we can, but there’s certainly. Plenty in the fisheries policy space to, to keep us busy. A lot of it deals with, you know, even though we do all fisheries issues from ice fishing to deep sea fishing and everything in between the oceans are where it gets particularly complicated and contentious.

That takes its takes a lot of different forms, but yeah, the MPA protected area of the bait has been a longstanding challenge for us. And it, we are not inherently against Marine protected areas. Cause Marine protected areas can mean a lot of different things. There are a lot of Marine-protected areas that you’re allowed to fish in where certain damaging commercial gear is restricted or certain types of, you know, mineral extraction are prohibited.

Mm-hmm but you’re still allowed to go recreational fishing, but then there’s the other extreme where there’s no human use allowed at all. And The problem with Marine protected areas is it’s a very nuanced discussion of, you know, what is it we’re trying to protect and who are we trying to protect it from?

And like, let’s figure out what the right regulations are to address what the, the actual problem is. But what we see is a lot of groups just [00:10:00] sort of seize on the, the optics of it that, oh, we’re going to save the ocean. We’re going to protect it. And we don’t really define what we’re protecting it from or what the goals are.

We’re just going to say, Hey, it’s a protected area. Nobody can go out there. You know, hopefully some good will come from it, but we’re not really sure. What that’ll ultimately look like. Those are the ones that we’re really worried about. And we’ve seen this happen in different parts of the country.

I mean, this is like a global issue that’s going on all over the place, but you know, in the us, our fisheries are pretty well managed in general. There’s still some challenges. You know, Northeast Cod and elsewhere, we’ve still got some stocks that are not in great shape, but in general, we’ve got a pretty good Fisher management system that makes sure we’re not overfishing and that overfish stocks are rebuilding.

It’s not perfect, but it’s certainly better than most other parts of the, the world where just going in and drawing lines on a map and saying, Hey, you can’t fish. That’s really not in most cases, the, the right science based way to go. You know, California, there was a big debate, a decade or so ago.

That’s starting to come up again where the state went in and created over a hundred Marine protected areas, all along the coastline, all without really any scientific basis. We would ask the state, you know, what, what fish stocks is this gonna benefit? What, what fisheries are over fish that we need to.

Fishing down to protect and they really couldn’t identify any, it was just a, you know, political debate, not a, a sound science based management debate. So that’s what we worry about is, you know, this idea that may have some merit, it may be a tool in the fishery management toolbox ends up getting hijacked and used you know, frankly for like fundraising purposes for environmental groups to to act like they’re doing some good, but not actually.

You know, doing a, a positive policy action for the, for the environment. So yeah, it takes a lot of different forms and it’s just something we have to look at a case by case basis and constantly remind policy makers that, you know, if you’re gonna explore something like this, it needs to be a transparent science based process with clear objectives and goals.

Ultimately the end goal should be [00:12:00] to get rid of the Marine protected area because it’s accomplished, protecting and restoring, whatever it was intended to protect. And therefore we can allow people to go back in and fish again. But yeah, it ends up being in all different parts of the spectrum of what’s allowed what’s not allowed and how good it is.

All right. So it’s a complicated challenge.

[00:12:18] George Scocca: So do they taken advice from the. You know, the other fisheries management People that are out there from a M F C from ni, did they take you know, any of the councils or did they just kind of look on at, at a chart as you had said, and kind of put a circle around it because here we are Hudson canyon, right?

To me, why would that be a Marine protected area? Thing goes, I don’t know, a thousand. You’ve got PS in there. It’s not like there’s going to be any drags or there’s never going to be drilling or, you know, there’s not really any type of commercial fishery out there. That I can think of, I guess maybe the tile, fish fishery, I don’t know.

But you know, so that’s my fear. It’s like, first of all, who decides the area, right? Why do I, why do they pick that area? So, and you know, what. Is the end game. What are the goals? What are they trying to accomplish? Like when, you know, for the sake of Stripe as, or just any type of fishery will say SC, okay.

You know, we, we’re trying to bring the biomass level to this number so we know why we may not agree with it, but we know why. They’re doing things. So, but with this MPA, to me, it could take so many different forms and who makes the decisions, do they set up separate boards for this thing?

[00:13:50] Mike Leonard: Yeah, so it really varies depending on, you know, what type of NPA we’re talking about.

Who’s in charge of it now. The, so the Hudson canyon one is, it’s like a, it’s being proposed as a [00:14:00] subset of, you know, MPAs, like the big umbrella. That all these different things can come out and you’ve got Marine reserves, you’ve got wilderness zones, you’ve got sanctuaries. So there’s all these different types of main protect areas.

Interesting of which Marine Marine sanctuaries. Is like a formal program within the national oceanic atmospheric administration. That is again, it’s a subset of what could be considered a Marine protected area. And honestly, of the Marine protected areas that are out there, Marine sanctuaries tend to be the most recreational friendly.

There’s about 15 of. Around the country. Probably the most notable is all along the Florida keys. Mm-hmm out to a few miles. Most of that is the national Marine sanctuary. There are several off the California coast. There are some shipwrecks that are designated as Marine sanctuaries. Each one’s a little different.

What it’s intended purpose is why it was designated how big it is. Like the ones off California. There are most of the exclusive economic zone off the Northern coast of California are, are in some sort of Marine sanctuary. And that was really done just because they did want. Oil and gas development out there.

Right? Re sanctuaries, prohibit oil and gas development. Right.

[00:15:08] George Scocca: Or they regulated, they might allow it if they feel like it, but yeah.

[00:15:13] Mike Leonard: So like in the authorizing, you know, the statute that designated the sanctuary program, there are certain activities that would never be allowed sanctuary reason. Okay. Oil and gas.

Development’s one of ’em, but fishing, especially recreational fishing. I think the stat is something like 98% of all national Marine sanctuary waters allow recreational fishing in some form. So not all but most. And in general sanctuaries tend to just adopt whatever regulations, if they’re in state waters, whatever the state has adopted.

If it’s in federal waters. You know, whatever the councils have adopted. So again, that’s not always the case, like in the Florida keys, there are some additional like closed areas, spawn, enclosures, that type of thing that go above and beyond [00:16:00] what other, you know, Fisher management entities would designate.

But, you know, compared to, again, what we see in other types of Marine protected areas like in California, where they just, sorry, in coastal California, the process I was talking about earlier, Where they just created a hundred or so of these all on the coast of band fishing green Aries tend to be a little bit different, so it’s not guaranteed that recreational fishing will be allowed, but that’s certainly the hope.

The Hudson canyon proposal came about to the wildlife conservation society. It’s affiliated with the New York aquarium put forward a nomination for Hudson canyon to be a national Marine sanctuary. And that’s the way. So over the last few years, the national Marine S program has created a a nomination right program where different entities either.

States or academic institutions or nonprofits can nominate a site to become a sanctuary. So it still has to go through a pretty arduous process from there, but that just is sort of what gets the ball rolling. And that’s really where we are right now. So this site has been proposed, you know, it’s a nomination that that the national Marine sanctuary system has said.

You know is worthy of consideration. So they’re gonna sort of get the ball rolling to explore eventually designating, and it would be, you know, a two to three year timeframe, just all the public comment, periods, and review they’ve gotta do and all that. But if you look at what the, the, the package of the nomination I’m not saying we’re totally outta the woods, but what’s being proposed is to designate it as a sanctuary more for For prohibiting oil, gas, mineral extraction, which to your point may not be feasible anyway, but this gives you a permanent, you know, depending on where technology goes in the future, it wouldn’t happen later.

But a lot of it’s more for like a public outreach awareness. You know, a lot of what they talk about in the nomination is working with local communities, schools to expand ocean education and awareness. And if you got this designated as a sanctuary, It [00:18:00] sort of gives Hudson canyon a above and beyond sort of the optics of this, this place is so special.

It is now in a Marine sanctuary. So I don’t know,

[00:18:07] George Scocca: I think I think I, I find some irony in here in this, that, in that we have an aquarium, that’s got all these animals in there that they’re, you know doing whatever the heck they’re doing, keeping them captive, no matter what you say, they’re the ones that are telling.

That are advising what we should do to make things better. I just see some irony in that, but I can’t help that. But so, so basically it it’s a crapshoot for us. And, and let me explain what thing to you. You probably know this, but you may not, but in New York we have a saying what happens in California what happens in New York mm-hmm and you know, it things that’s scary. It it’s, it’s true. I mean, I think we fight amongst the two to be the highest tax states in the country. Right. We’re not going to get too, too deep into the woods with that, but, but the fact is. What happens there eventually does happen here.

And so, and what you said is there’s like a hundred dots. I, because I looked at that map and I was like, oh my God, there’s like NPA dots, like up and down the coast everywhere. And there’s also some, some favorite fishing spot. They lo they lost a lot of recreational fishing areas that they enjoy.

[00:19:22] Mike Leonard: Well, that was the whole thing is like they wanted to go in and protect the best habitat.

Well, guess what? That’s where the best fishing is. Right. So right. You know, they, they said they, we only protected 16% of coastal waters. Well guess what? That’s the 16%, that’s the best place to fish. There’s, there’s plenty of flat Sandy bottom for you to go fish that you’re not going to catch anything in, but yeah.

That’s so that’s magnitude problems

[00:19:43] George Scocca: greater than that. You know, we we’ve, we’ve got so many things that were up against here, which I’m sure you know yet. And when I say up against, I mean, look this year, we, you know, you gotta take to go with the bed this year. We went down a half inch in new, in New York on the fluke, which was good, [00:20:00] but the sea bass season stayed the same.

We’re kind of getting hit over on that. I don’t think our regulators are taking into account that we have some kind of transition going on. Fisheries are moving north. It’s pretty obvious, but of all of them, at least we’ve got input. We’ve got advisory boards.


[00:20:19] George Scocca: there’s people which we speak to that we’ve known for years that know the process.

But when I hear, you know, that someone like no. Is going to come in and say, that’s the spot and you’re going to do whatever we say. You can. It’s a little bit scary. So, and, and, you know, when you open, when you open a door, other doors open, it just happens that way. So, so, so they literally, so you think it’s, I mean, it’s possible.

That they, it would just be for environmental reasons and we’ll still be able to go out there and fish there. I don’t see why we, why we wouldn’t be able to fish that area for life for me. But

[00:21:03] Mike Leonard: yeah, well, it’s, it’s possible. I mean, optimistically, I think that’s, to me that looks like we’re, this one’s headed.

I, we can’t take that for granted. So right now there’s a public comment period that I think runs till August. Eighth, something like that. Some in early August for people to just comment on the, the, sort of the scope of this proposal that I would encourage listeners to provide comments and feedback on the importance of continuing to allow, should this go forward to continue to allow recreational fishing to happen.

Because that’s again, that’s the indication right now. Again, if you read the nomination, it states that fishing should continue in this area. It praises the Mid-Atlantic fishery management council for how it’s managed fisheries. There’s no indication that they’re trying to supersede existing regulations, but we can’t take that for granted.

There’s a comment period right now, as I mentioned the process. If it goes through this site [00:22:00] nomination process, it’ll be a two to three year long thing with several opportunities to comment, but it’s really important for anglers to make their voice heard loud and clear from the outset that if this goes in any sort of different direction where we’re starting to restrict recreational fishing arbitrarily, then that’s going to be a huge problem for our community.

So we really need to make sure our voice is clear early and off. I’ve got a link.

[00:22:22] George Scocca: You know, I’ll get a link up on the website with some type of a sample letter that that can be sent.

[00:22:29] Mike Leonard: Yeah. And we don’t have one up now, but you, you mentioned other programs within ASA. We’ve got ANR advocacy site called keep America fishing.

Dot org, where we will have a comment, this what you’re talking about, like a form letter mm-hmm where people can go and it’ll, you know, make all the arguments, you can edit the letter if you want. But get it submitted that way to, to, to try and make it a little easier for folks to, yeah. We’ll try and get something up quickly to to make that as easy as possible.

Cause like I said, it’s not a guarantee sky doesn’t look like it’s fallen right now, but if we’re not vigilant on it, this could go. Very bad direction.

[00:23:03] George Scocca: Yeah. Well, that’s why I’m trying to get out in front of it. You know, it’s so quiet here. The problem we have is years ago. You know, there was no social media, people had to unite to be heard.

Now they get on the Facebook page, they send something out to their 2525, 250 friends, and they think that they’ve helped. But they have it, you know, so we need more people joining ASA. We need all, all of you tackle shops out there. This is a group you definitely wanna get involved in

[00:23:37] Mike Leonard: unless you 25 friends are members of Congress or.

You know, Atlantic states, Marine fishing, fishery, commission, commissioners, or sure. Council, we need to get to the, the policy makers decision makers

[00:23:48] George Scocca: here. Okay. Well, I’m sure we have plenty of prime subjects listen, and we just gotta get ’em off their butts. And if, if losing. Hudson [00:24:00] canyon. Doesn’t do it.

I mean, because that’s all the money, you know, of course, course a few bucks gets 65 miles offshore, especially nowadays. So we need to get them get them vocal.

[00:24:12] Mike Leonard: Well, and that’s where, you know, again, even if this sanctuary moves forward, cause like I said, right now it’s really just focused on. Prohibiting oil and gas development using this as an opportunity for education.

Yeah, there, there’d probably be some research funding that comes along with this. So there’s not really much of a regulatory component to it, but like I said, the, it doesn’t take much for things to go in a different direction. You just need. Some environmental groups to hijack it and yeah know, we need to ban everything in here and then suddenly we’re in a different position.

So that’s why, again, we need to stay on top of it. I,

[00:24:42] George Scocca: I totally agree that they need to know out of the gate how we are going to react to these type of things, because we all know this isn’t the only one. So if they see us roll over. With this one, you know, we’re gonna see dots around long island and let me tell you it’s hard enough to fish around here as it is, but we don’t have a lot of access.

Yeah. So the least

[00:25:04] Mike Leonard: thing. Well, that was you know, you mentioned what happens in California goes to New York. That was . That was maybe the only good thing that came out of California is they, they almost served as martyrs for the rest of the country because. While we didn’t have much success out there in defeating those protected areas.

We made it a really ugly, messy process. And not many people have looked at that and said, oh we want to replicate that and do that all over again. Where that’s the plan point? Like we, you know, a few years ago during the, into the Obama administration, Some listeners may remember, and this is still going on, but further north, the there’s a new England canyons national Marine monument, which is another different type of it’s still wag, right?

It’s still, that was designated. And that allows recreational fishing in it. And that, that was a result of a lot of advocacy from ASA and many others. To make it clear, you know, if you ban recreational fishing, this is going to be a political nightmare for you. Don’t do what California did. So, but [00:26:00] again, we got to, we got to keep that message going loud and strong.


[00:26:03] George Scocca: great. So, Mike, I really appreciate you coming on. I appreciate the work ASA is doing maybe want to tell people how to get your podcast.

[00:26:13] Mike Leonard: Oh, yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. We’ll probably have this, maybe George, you’re not going to reverse roles in . I’ll interview about interview you about Hudson candy, but yeah, we’ve got a podcast called the politics of Phish that just started it’s available everywhere.

You can find podcasts. That’s sort of an insider’s look into the, some of what we’re talking about here. Yeah, it’s interesting policy that goes into to fisheries regulation, then access and outdoor recreation in general.

[00:26:35] George Scocca: Okay. That’s great. And once again, folks remember the ASA and as you can see, they’re out there working while you know, you’re out fishing and I get it, BU believe me.

I know the last thing you want to think about is trying to fight for something while you’re fishing. But while you are fishing, is people like this that are in the background. Protecting our rights every day, all day. So, Mike, I appreciate what you do. It’s not the most, it’s pretty Thankless position in many cases.

and it’s I always wonder why I did it years ago, but,

[00:27:09] Mike Leonard: Yeah, you got to, look for wins real carefully, because. Yeah, they don’t come often. Yeah, you got to take ’em where they do

[00:27:16] George Scocca: come. Exactly. Well, it was a pleasure speaking with you. Please pass along my best for the team over there and I wish you the best

[00:27:24] Mike Leonard: of luck.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for having George and be back anytime and, and we happy to stay in touch. And as I said, this goes forward share information with listeners through keep America fishing and otherwise of how they can engage this. This is a really important one and we need everyone to speak up.

So, so thanks again for having me on.

The Close

[00:27:41] George Scocca: My pleasure. Thanks again for coming on. Well, there you have it folks. I hope you’re not more confused. Just kidding. Make sure you check out the website link, which we’re gonna have you know, Mike’s gonna send out to us and I’m going to get that up on our website. [00:28:00] So you really do need to voice your opinion on this.

We need to send a me message right away. I’m sure you heard. If, if you list the whole thing, you know California has a hundred of them. I thought it was only 40. But he mentioned a hundred. Yes. Some of them, you can face some of them, you can’t. I mean, it just seems to me to be such totally politically based and not science based.

I just don’t see why the aquarium. Would this make a recommendation as to what areas of, of the earth that we’re allowed to fish, but in any case, make sure you follow up with it, follow up on the website. We need to send a clear, concise message. So when they come to us and say, all right, we are going to make the fire island reef a.

MPA and nobody’s going to be allowed to fish on it. Don’t be surprised. I have a few guests that will be on my next show that are from California and they talk about the many. Instances where they lost you know, fertile fishing ground. So this is an issue to keep on top of, I will bring you more of it in the future.

And speaking of the website, make sure you stop by make a post read the knowledgeable editorial content which we have there. We got a lot of good fishermen there. It’s not the wild, wild west. It’s you don’t have to worry about going in there and posting a question. Have somebody say, oh my God, what are you an idiot?

Internet. Italian P not. Oh. You got to be a jerk. Why are you in this group? We don’t do that here. We’re all, we’re all about friendship and we’re all about touching fish. So please stop by Emily and sign up so you can receive our weekly newsletter. So I will be [00:30:00] back again ASAP. I don’t want to make any promises because every time I do.

I I’m late. So, but I am going to get back if you folks think it’s good, where I just kind of give an outline report and, you know, have one guest, I can probably put one out every week. So, but I’m curious to see you know, what you think and if there’s anybody out there that has suggestions wants to pitch in you know, I don’t know, please reach out to me.

It’s George That’s George So once again, I’d like to thank you all for listening. Please be sure to subscribe. If you check off whatever you’re using, there’s a way to check off a subscribe button. Be sure you do that. And then you get a message when the new podcast goes out. I mean, I know a lot of you are doing it because as soon as the podcast goes out, bang, you know we’re getting a bunch of listens.

So but make sure you do that and please be safe out there on the water. Keep only what you need and enjoy the great fishing we have here in New York.

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