If you care about striped bass management . . . .

[george]

Then this podcast is a must-listen. It's a great interview I had yesterday with the ASMFC on the emergency regulations that will effectively have recreational anglers ONLY fishing on one year class of fish. 28-31 inches. Every bass not born in 2015 must be let go. Those are the rules.

Please listen in and let me know what you think.

https://www.buzzsprout.com/252409/12880718-striped-bass-slot-to-be-slashed-as-emergency-regulations-on-july-2-2023.mp3

 

[george]

I would highly value your thoughts and feedback on this podcast, so feel free to leave your comments below.

It's completely fine if your viewpoint doesn't align with mine. What I'm aiming for is to gauge a general agreement on what you envision the fishing season to be, especially in light of these emergency regulations.

 

[hartattack]

Enjoyed it, thanks George. I liked that you criticized the Md. Trophy exemption and pointed out that Chesapeake stock is hurting. I would like to learn what other measures ASMFC and others are taking, specifically banning Bunker reduction . Recs take it on the chin again for others' malfeasance, business as usual...

 

[Roccus7]

Very nice interview George. As you mentioned, it was nice having a clear discussion, without the terms BSB, F Threshold, etc. bantered around, even though these items were discussed. Emilie is a great spokesperson.

I know some feel recreational fisherman are unfairly being picked on, but as Emilie stressed, we're responsible for a vast majority of striped bass mortality and that's where the reduction efforts should start. It's the old "Pogo Paradigm", We've met the enemy and he is us.

That being said, ASMFC has clearly said that in 2024 this emergency measure will be codified into a Addendum 2 for Amendment 7, and commercial quotas, along with the Chesapeake Trophy issue will be addressed. The Chesapeake got a free ride on this simply because their Trophy Season ended in April, so it was over before this action took place.

I hope other states take the lead Maine has by enacting the 28-31" slot ASAP and not waiting until July 2 . The quicker everyone gets on the stick, the higher the likelihood that this will make a quick and positive impact on the overall striped bass population, helping to ensure that the 2029 rebound is seen. Dragging things out will only increase the possibility that additional Draconian measures will be forthcoming in the future.

 

[Snapprhead27]

Great podcast. As always, rec guys take the beating

 

[Roccus7]

Forgot to put this in my comment above, and that's the misconception that we can't keep any fish from the 2015 Class. When showing the slide below of Maine 2022 MRIP data, the presenter made the comment that ASMFC's Technical Committee predicted the mean length of the 2015 Class Stripers would be 31.5", so that's why the 31" max was established; it should protect at least 1/2 of the fish caught from the 2015 spawn this year.

 

[Fishinatik]

wether you agree with release mortality’s rates for recreationally caught bass as calculated at 10% or not , they definitely are setting us up for higher release mortality with this emergency measure . Targetting fish in a small slot range seems counterproductive .
why not make the range larger and ease the strain on each year class in terms of fish taken for more sustainable stocks going forward?

 

[captmike28]

As always, Georger, I greatly appreciate your efforts of keeping us informed, whether or not I like the direction things are going.

Certainly, having an explanation minus a lot of f the "word salad" technical terms thrown about by the Fisheries management people is helpful. However, unless I am really thick headed, I still don't completely buy some of the logic here.

Emilie claims they are trying to protect the 2015-year class of fish over 31" in length, yet we caught more fish in the 31-35" size range last year and the start of this year than I can recall in a long time. Yes, I know there is much more recreational pressure due to the abundance of the Bass, but it still seems to me if we are seeing that many more fish in that size range isn't that an indication of a growing population?. Maybe I'm just a linear thinking guy but it still seems like every time we try to follow the rules and the catches increase as a "supposed result of good fisheries management" we get punished again.

Also, I think the managers don't' do themselves any good when the put out the double speak type language. I have to go back and listen a bit more closely but early on in the discussion I know I heard Emilie say in the same sentence that last year overfishing was not occurring, but we did overfish!! Wha the heck does that mean?

 

[Roccus7]

I still don't completely buy some of the logic here.

Maybe some context is appropriate. Here's the Maryland Historical Young of the Year results, the results of multiple seinings in the bay during the fall where they physically count the number of baby bass in the net. As you can see 2003, 2011 & 2015 were the only "Way Over the Average" counts since the whopper year of 2001. Our other recent "Well Over the Average" year was 2017, more on this later. The sad story is that since 2000, we've have 12 under average years.

Of course, bass reproduction isn't at all linear in that a huge amount of spawning fish can have a crappy spawn, just like a small spawning population can produce a banner YOY result because of important environmental factors in the spawning grounds, one of the most important being the salinity of the water. Striped bass eggs need to bounce along the bottom as they develop prior to hatching. Low salinity and the eggs stay on the bottom and get covered by silt, resulting in the eggs not hatching. Too much salinity and the eggs float on the top of the water, not getting the proper agitation which is fatal, along with subjecting them getting fed on by birds, fish. Salinity:Striped Bass = Porridge:Goldy Locks.

Unfortunately, the recent trend, including this spring I believe, has been rainy weather, so nobody is optimistic about the 2023 YOY result also.

OK, so how does this translate to catch? Let me share my 2021 & 2022 size distribution data. The "good thing" about my data is there are few variables. I catch 99% of my fish using poppers and I fish the same areas year after year. If I suddenly started live lining bunker one year we'd be looking at an "apples to oranges" to scenario if these data were compared to previous years, but we're not so it's a good comparison.

Here's 2021, where my mean size of fish caught was identical to both 2019 and 2020, at 21". The number of fish started climbing at 16", and there was a good peak at 20", the 2017 YOY class.



In 2022 my catch had a definite shift to the larger sizes with a mean of 23"! The real bad news for the future is the almost total absence of 16" fish!!. All those crappy spawns since 2019 are showing themselves, and those 2017 fish are certainly growing. Additionally, like many of us, I caught more 28-<35" slot fish in 2022 than ever up here, most of which were part of the 2015 YOY class.



OK, one more slide, this from ASMFC regarding the differences between 2021 & 2022. You can ignore the statistical mumbo jumbo in the table. The bottom line is that Recreational Fishing killed far more bass in 2022 than was predicted in the models that supported a 2029 stock recovery.



So regulators looking at the historical YOY data, the historical population distribution and the 4X increase in the 2022 Recreational Harvest determined that the prediction for the 2029 recovery was in totally in jeopardy.

So what do they do?

• Reduce the recreational release mortality: Like it or not, the 9% recreational mortality seems to be a fact, a current study in progress seems to bear that out, just like the original study. The only way to lower that number is to shut down targeting striped bass, a C&R option would still have that huge mortality number.
  
  Proposed options for this centered around having each state shut down their striped bass fishing during PRIME TIME! Needless to say a loud, smelly fart in Church would go over better than this one, impossible to enforce, and totally disruptive to all aspects of recreational fishing.
  
  
• Improve the spawn: Since the environmental factors of spawning are beyond human intervention, the only logical solution is to protect the best YOY classes available to maintain as large of a spawning biomass as possible, increasing potential spawn.
  
  The current 28-<35" slot, that is pretty much populated with the 2015 fish. With the average 2015 fish is estimated to be 31.5" this year, they could protect at least 1/2 that population from being harvested, so this was the impetus for this change. So yes, there was some method to their madness
  
  
• HOWEVER, ASMFC has clearly stated that if the narrowing of the slot doesn't help the 2029 recovery, future, more Draconian measures will be taken, including retention moratoriums on harvest, adjusting things to protect the 2017 fish as they come of age, those horrible targeting striped bass closed seasons during prime time, etc., etc., etc.

OK, I've rambled enough. See what happens when the weather shuts me out from my morning prayer session at the Altar of Morone saxatilis? Crap, now I have to proofread and edit this...

 

[Roccus7]

NY DEC Update on New Slot: Doesn't say much...
Saltwater fishing regulations - updates
DEC will be updating 2023 recreational saltwater fishing regulations for striped bass in marine waters to a slot limit of 28-31 inches after Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) found that the probability of the stock being rebuilt by 2029 has significantly decreased. The emergency action requires implementation of a 31-inch maximum slot limit for current recreational fisheries, however, it does not change the size limit on the Hudson River (north of the George Washington Bridge) which will remain at 18-to-28 inches. Recreational striped bass regulations in New York will not change until passage of New York State emergency regulations. Once state regulations are put into effect, DEC will seek public comment on the proposed regulation. Anglers are encouraged to continue to check DEC's webpage for the current limits in effect.

 

[Snapprhead27]

Why does the Hudson River have that slot of 18-28?

 

[NoFlukenName]

Why does the Hudson River have that slot of 18-28?

Different body of fish than those they are trying to save (Chesapeake fish).

 

[Snapprhead27]

Different body of fish than those they are trying to save (Chesapeake fish).

Thanks Capt!

 

[WhatKnot]

Different body of fish than those they are trying to save (Chesapeake fish).

Sorry, but with all due respect, it doesn’t answer the question. Do these fish eventually wind up south of the GW Bridge and into other waters and spawn? Serious question, not trying to bust balls.

 

[george]

Do these fish eventually wind up south of the GW Bridge and into other waters and spawn? Serious question, not trying to bust balls

The Hudson striped bass head north following herring and then as soon as eveything lines up they spawn.

I have personally witnessed spawns in the Hudson, and it is a sight to see.

To answer your question, the majority, if not all, of the Hudson bass hang around for a few years and then they hesd north.

 

[WhatKnot]

T

The Hudson striped bass head north following herring and then as soon as eveything lines up they spawn.

I have personally witnessed spawns in the Hudson, and it is a sight to see.

To answer your question, the majority, if not all, of the Hudson bass hang around for a few years and then they hesd north.

Thank you.

 

[WhatKnot]

The Hudson striped bass head north following herring and then as soon as eveything lines up they spawn.

I have personally witnessed spawns in the Hudson, and it is a sight to see.

To answer your question, the majority, if not all, of the Hudson bass hang around for a few years and then they hesd north.

Promise last question; I still don’t understand the much more liberal slot for these fish. It would seem to me it’s counterproductive.

 

[george]

Keep in mind this deals with bass that are north of the GW. They are only there for a few weeks during the spawn, and traditionally it's few fish taken Also by allowing the smaller slot, you're protecting the breaders asked there are less pcbs in the fish.

 

[captmike28]

Maybe some context is appropriate. Here's the Maryland Historical Young of the Year results, the results of multiple seinings in the bay during the fall where they physically count the number of baby bass in the net. As you can see 2003, 2011 & 2015 were the only "Way Over the Average" counts since the whopper year of 2001. Our other recent "Well Over the Average" year was 2017, more on this later. The sad story is that since 2000, we've have 12 under average years.

Of course, bass reproduction isn't at all linear in that a huge amount of spawning fish can have a crappy spawn, just like a small spawning population can produce a banner YOY result because of important environmental factors in the spawning grounds, one of the most important being the salinity of the water. Striped bass eggs need to bounce along the bottom as they develop prior to hatching. Low salinity and the eggs stay on the bottom and get covered by silt, resulting in the eggs not hatching. Too much salinity and the eggs float on the top of the water, not getting the proper agitation which is fatal, along with subjecting them getting fed on by birds, fish. Salinity:Striped Bass = Porridge:Goldy Locks.

Unfortunately, the recent trend, including this spring I believe, has been rainy weather, so nobody is optimistic about the 2023 YOY result also.

OK, so how does this translate to catch? Let me share my 2021 & 2022 size distribution data. The "good thing" about my data is there are few variables. I catch 99% of my fish using poppers and I fish the same areas year after year. If I suddenly started live lining bunker one year we'd be looking at an "apples to oranges" to scenario if these data were compared to previous years, but we're not so it's a good comparison.

Here's 2021, where my mean size of fish caught was identical to both 2019 and 2020, at 21". The number of fish started climbing at 16", and there was a good peak at 20", the 2017 YOY class.

View attachment 63125

In 2022 my catch had a definite shift to the larger sizes with a mean of 23"! The real bad news for the future is the almost total absence of 16" fish!!. All those crappy spawns since 2019 are showing themselves, and those 2017 fish are certainly growing. Additionally, like many of us, I caught more 28-<35" slot fish in 2022 than ever up here, most of which were part of the 2015 YOY class.

View attachment 63126

OK, one more slide, this from ASMFC regarding the differences between 2021 & 2022. You can ignore the statistical mumbo jumbo in the table. The bottom line is that Recreational Fishing killed far more bass in 2022 than was predicted in the models that supported a 2029 stock recovery.

View attachment 63127

So regulators looking at the historical YOY data, the historical population distribution and the 4X increase in the 2022 Recreational Harvest determined that the prediction for the 2029 recovery was in totally in jeopardy.

So what do they do?

• Reduce the recreational release mortality: Like it or not, the 9% recreational mortality seems to be a fact, a current study in progress seems to bear that out, just like the original study. The only way to lower that number is to shut down targeting striped bass, a C&R option would still have that huge mortality number.
  
  Proposed options for this centered around having each state shut down their striped bass fishing during PRIME TIME! Needless to say a loud, smelly fart in Church would go over better than this one, impossible to enforce, and totally disruptive to all aspects of recreational fishing.
  
  
• Improve the spawn: Since the environmental factors of spawning are beyond human intervention, the only logical solution is to protect the best YOY classes available to maintain as large of a spawning biomass as possible, increasing potential spawn.
  
  The current 28-<35" slot, that is pretty much populated with the 2015 fish. With the average 2015 fish is estimated to be 31.5" this year, they could protect at least 1/2 that population from being harvested, so this was the impetus for this change. So yes, there was some method to their madness
  
  
• HOWEVER, ASMFC has clearly stated that if the narrowing of the slot doesn't help the 2029 recovery, future, more Draconian measures will be taken, including retention moratoriums on harvest, adjusting things to protect the 2017 fish as they come of age, those horrible targeting striped bass closed seasons during prime time, etc., etc., etc.

OK, I've rambled enough. See what happens when the weather shuts me out from my morning prayer session at the Altar of Morone saxatilis? Crap, now I have to proofread and edit this...

Sorry for the late reply here Roccus, but my own pursuit of Bass, both Charter wise and recreationally of late has me sleeping very few hours!

First, let me say that you are always very proficient at displaying pertinent data and supporting the points you make. It is a far better job than I could ever do without spending a huge amount of time researching this topic. What I observe is that this is the same approach that our fisheries managers seem to take when crafting the regulations we must abide by. I believe it is done with the expectation it will help us all by sustaining healthy stock levels for a fish most of us really love.

What I still have some difficulty with is the apparent low ranking of the empirical data that I and so many other remembers of the fishing community provide to help the regulations enacted to make sense. So many times, I have seen myself and heard other members of the for hire and commercial industry make the same comment. It just seems to us all the data we supply with our VTR's (Vessel Trip Reports) are almost totally ignored. We reinforce these numbers at the public input sessions and many times the managers present act surprised at the number of fish we are taking. It makes us all wonder if these folks ever really get out on the water to "eyeball"' what is actually happening or are they just hiding behind their computers and fancy algorithms.

Computer models used in fisheries management, IMHO, can be just as wrong as the models used by the "Climate Change Fanatics" who keep predicting the end of the world in the next 10 years as each decade rolls by with none of their predictions even close to coming true!

Once again, I mean no disrespect to you or your skills, but we all know that statistics can be manipulated to paint almost any picture the person presenting the data wants to illustrate. It brings to mind an old quote I just ran across again recently:
Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

[Roccus7]

It just seems to us all the data we supply with our VTR's (Vessel Trip Reports) are almost totally ignored.

First, healthy debate is always appreciated, so don't fret about me taking offense. And yes, I'm up early because I'm about to run out the door since an internal Gremlin wants me to be on the "spot" before 1st light...

Second, I'm truly astounded that VTR data is dismissed by NOAA and their minions. Why have folks report data and then ignore it, just to give the reporters agita?????

In some states, blissfully Maine is not one, any recreational data provided by fishermen is also ignore, with MRIP being the Bible. MRIP as Gospel??? Don't get me started. At least Maine includes their Volunteer Angler Logbook data with the MRIP data, and do use the data in their analyses.

Time to go, the birds are starting to chirp...