"We going to see a full analysis of that pink braid???"

Leprechaun

Kind of a Big Deal - In My Mind Anyway
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Dec 19, 2018
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Fellow moderator Roccus7 asked the question and so, here's my answer. But first a bit of background. Way back in pre-COVID 2019 I acquired a new Daiwa Catalina TW 100P and was "casting" about for just the right line to load onto it. See the full thread here: Daiwa Catalina TW 100P - A really good Dealeo on a top-shelf baitcasting reel, - but you gotta move FAST!

I was gonna go with my fav line (at the time), Sufix 832. But I really wanted something in Pink, to "go with" the predominant trim of the reel. I know, first world problem and all, but its my money, and so my choice. Couldn't find anything in an 8-weave braid in this country and I was also jonesing to give one of them new-fangled, ultra-thin Japanese braids a chance. A protracted Google search had me looking at Gosen's X8 braid in Pink (!) on one Japanese website or another. Ordered in the 20lb-test version and loaded it onto my reel.

1626638236395.jpeg

All good, so far. Now comes the fine print. Here's some self-quoted paragraphs from that earlier post:

In the Japanese "sexy line department," some of the biggest players are Varivas, Sunline and YGK, along with somewhat smaller manufacturers, like Gosen. Frankly, all of the big Asian line providers make a bewildering assortment of differing lines, for specific applications. These can vary greatly in weaves, called "Pics" per inch, the number of individual threads utilized, coatings, and overall limpness. Its really quite intimidating, once you get into it. Interesting though . . .

For example, at this point everybody knows of the excellence of Sufix's 832 line - widely available here in the USA. But how many know of the Asia-only equivalent, called Performance Pro 8, which omits the single Gore-Tex thread and goes straight PE for all 8 threads? This actually makes for a thinner and somewhat limper line. But its not available here, unless you bring it in yourself from a Japanese vendor, like Japan Tackle, Digitaka or Plat. Or you can look to another Sufix line that is JDM only, which is a 16-thread line, though its no thicker than their 8-thread version. Costs plenty, but its said to be MUCH improved. When do you think we'll see that stuff here? Probably never, would be my guess. Gosen also offers such a line - at right around $85 for a 300 meter spool. It better be a GREAT line for that kind of money, that's for sure.

Perusing the Japanese tackle vendors sites, I was looking for a super thin line, in 20lb. test, as the intended use was on this reel, mounted on my Daiwa Proteus SS "H" casting rod, for those days that are so rotten that even a 6oz bucktail fails to maintain contact with the bottom. Putting out a B/S rig with an 8, 10 or even 12oz sinker is no one's idea of fun, but if I'm already out there, and I think the fish are under the boat, I ain't a'comin' home - or heading inshore, in the hopes of calmer conditions. Just NOT my style. Sometimes ya' just gotta suck it up and fish through, ya' know?

That all being said, what I was looking for in a line was something very thin, but equally strong - so to really cut thru the water, thus allowing a lighter jig or sinker on "those" days. Also important was high visibility (my eyes aren't getting any younger), as well as being fairly limp. This took a ton of research, but I believe that I've found it in Gosen's X8 Braid in 20lb. test. And its available in a pink color - perfecto for this new reel! Done. Ordered it in and though it took a couple of weeks, it appears that it was worth the wait.

It is stunningly thinner - more like 8 or 10lb test Sufix 832.

1626638407009.jpeg

And this brings up yet another "issue" when evaluating braided lines, one to another. Here in the good old USA, line makers tend to "under-rate" their lines, meaning that 20lb Sufix 832 has been repeatedly reported to break in the mid-30 pound range. So it does offer a "breakage cushion" for pulling free from snags and the such. Most other USA-intended lines are similarly over-rated, as evidenced by several websites that have compiled such intel.

So, that last paragraph from 2019 turned out to be quite prescient. In actual practice this Gosen line cuts thru the deep water currents like no other 20lb I've ever used. On those days that called for a 5 or 6oz bucktail, I can comfortably and accurately fish a 4oz - much nicer to jig the "smaller"-sized lure for several hours, believe me.

But the down side was that I was not able to pull free of the many snags that are endemic to the deeper locales that I fish. Ultimately, too many lost rigs lead to me swapping out the Gosen 20lb for a fresh load of Sufix 832. Here's the graphic difference, and I'm showinq a Sunline Siglon box as a sub for the Gosen box - because the Gosen box does not feature the lb test/diameter numbers. Sunline Siglon is another Japanese uber-thin braid - very analogous in diameter and handling characteristics to Gosen:

Here is the Gosen Box - no real useable info:

IMG_0702_edited.jpg

Here is the Sunline Siglon box:
IMG_2676.jpg

And here's my fav line in the same lb test:

IMG_2675.jpg

There are two big clues present on the last two boxes. First, though both are rated as "20lb test," note that the Japanese braid features a diameter of 0.187mm, while the 832 is MUCH thicker, at 0.230mm.

I know, these are very small numbers to most people. But coming from the world of industrial precise measurement, believe me, there is a HUGE difference between the two numbers, close to 20% in fact. This translates into 20% more drag in the water, bearing out my earlier statement about being able to sub a 4oz lure for a 6oz version.

However, and this is the big one - also note that the Japanese line boxes show 20lb as the MAX breaking strength - with no such mention on the 832 box. Here is Sunline's numbers:

Sunline Siglon.JPG

And here is Sufix 832's numbers for comparison:

832 Diameter.JPG

Therefore it becomes obvious that 20lb 832's diameter of 0.230 is more than equal to Sunline's 30lb test, probably more like 33lb test. This explains a lot - and bears out my 2019 thoughts and 2020/2021 "on the grounds" observations. Conversely, according to Sufix's numbers, their 0.180mm line is ONLY what they call 8lb test. But again, that is not the "max" number, it is the pound test that Sufix chooses to assign to that diameter. Completely subjective, right?

There is no "magic material" that these lines are made of - PE material is PE material, whether its called Dyneema, Spectra or some other name - depending on who the original fiber manufacturer happens to be. The real differences between the premium Japanese lines and the more commonly available (to us) lines other than the extreme thinness, is in the tightness of the weave, and the finish - and in both of those characteristics the Japanese are way ahead. Just run a premium Japanese braid through your fingers and you will know.

But given all the above - what's this all mean to me? It means there really is no such thing as a "free lunch," when it comes to fishing line diameter. It means that you have to give up something to gain something. Its really a question of line diameter vs strength. Bottom line, it means that I cannot fish an uber-thin "20 lb" Asian braided line on my deep drops. Well, I can, if I don't mind giving up a good bit more in the way of jigs and GULP!. I now know that the Gosen (and Sunline) "20lb" lines, though really fantastic to fish, just do NOT have the tensile strength needed to pull free from what would be "retrievable" snags, were I using 20lb 832 (or Berkley X-9, or J-Braid too, for that matter).

If I were fishing less sticky bottom, then fine, I will say that what I purchased as "20lb" Gosen would be great. But for my specific purpose, nope, I have had to step up to a more substantial line - in my case I went with 20lb 832 "Ghost," which is a sort of milky white color. I have moved my pretty pink Gosen "20lb" line to one of my lighter spinning setups - which I will use for East-end porgy fishing and perhaps for Bay fluking (if I ever do that fishing, ever again) - both of which applications are far less demanding than my mid-Summer deep fluking adventures.

I suppose I could have ordered in a spool of pink 30lb Gosen 8Braid. But I couldn't find a vendor with it in stock, and I'd like to continue using that rod/reel setup, without benching it for a couple of weeks of prime ocean jigging season, while I track down and then wait for a shipment from Japan. Not to mention, the diameter of Gosen's 30lb is so close to 832's 20lb, what would be the big difference, other than slightly better handling? Not worth it - not to me, anyway.

So with all that being said, Roccus7 - you wanted to see a full analysis. This was pretty much as "full" as I could come up with. . . 8-)
 
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LowGear

New Angler
Feb 8, 2020
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8
North East
I found the same results fishing last year with the pink twine. My fishing partner and I were constantly breaking off and I was using FG knots for both of us.

For the longest time I was of the impression that my knots were not holding because of how fine and slick the line was. Had to be my fault since the line was so beautiful. We were breaking off way too much, it was not my fault.

I switched back to Yo-zuri Superbraid 20lb and am happy with piece of mind that my knots are fine.
 
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Leprechaun

Kind of a Big Deal - In My Mind Anyway
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The Gosen truly excellent line, with superior feel and handling, but the 20lb is just under-strength for fishing over structure - as my first post indicated. Stepping up to the 30lb version would take care of that - however this puts its diameter in a similar territory to the more commonly available (to us) lines. So, unless you want a specific color, or prefer the superior finish and handling of these Japanese lines, there really is no other advantage that I see.

BTW, I used 20lb Daiwa J-Braid X8 (lime green) for the first time, last trip out. Very nice stuff. So far, I'd rate it right in the same class as Berkley X9 and Sufix 832. Its on my favorite outfit, so further testing will be occurring thru the remainder of this fluke season.
 

movetheboat

Well-Known Angler
Dec 29, 2018
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So I used the 20lb gosen at the shoals Monday with no problem......but my leader knot was done very carefully on land before hand and there are little to no snags on the shoals.

Pete and co. one of my baitcasters in the REVO family does not tighten when the star drag is maxed out...is that a need new drag washers sign?

thank you!

All in all I'm pretty impressed with the August fluke fishing in all different areas and States this year.

On one of my rods Monday at the shoals I had a real jewelry fluke rig tied on and forecasted to my brother that capt - - - - would freak out when he saw it. This rig was very effective in Jersey.

Sure enuf before we even left the dock he saw it in the overhead rod holder and said "YOU'RE NOT DROPPING THAT F#@$ING thing here" We laughed our asses off.....and I asked him if we got our limit can I drop it? He said you can drop a DILDO down there after that if you want.....well we limited but alas I had no dildo among the thousands of dollars of tackle on board.
 

Leprechaun

Kind of a Big Deal - In My Mind Anyway
Staff member
Dec 19, 2018
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Sounds like your Revo's curved "Belleville" drag washers are crushed flat. Or possibly a mis-assembly? Can't say without seeing it.

Respectfully, next time you go up there to fish that boat, maybe have a couple of these in your bag:

1630603203659.png



 
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LowGear

New Angler
Feb 8, 2020
78
19
8
North East
I found the same results fishing last year with the pink twine. My fishing partner and I were constantly breaking off and I was using FG knots for both of us.

For the longest time I was of the impression that my knots were not holding because of how fine and slick the line was. Had to be my fault since the line was so beautiful. We were breaking off way too much, it was not my fault.

I switched back to Yo-zuri Superbraid 20lb and am happy with piece of mind that my knots are fine.
Correction, PR knots, not FG…

MTB… pm me the Capt or boat so I can pack a surprise jig for future last drops as I dabble a bit out on the Shoals…
 

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