Wind farm in Montauk
- Thread starter Bassknuckles
- Start date
Can you at least lock me up so I won't be tempted to post in this one anymore??
Not thinking you'd be the one to lock up...
Germany spent $580 billion on renewables over last decade and got:
1. zero emissions reductions
2. 50% increase in cost of electricity
3. electricity supply 2x more carbon-intensive as France’s
4. electricity nearly 2x as expensive as France’s
#GreenNewDeal
Verified account@ShellenbergerMD
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Replying to @jmcurtin @UrsBolt and 6 others
Yeah what bargain: $580 billion for zero emissions reductions and a electricity supply over 2x more carbon-intensive and nearly 2x as expensive as electricity in France
1. zero emissions reductions
2. 50% increase in cost of electricity
3. electricity supply 2x more carbon-intensive as France’s
4. electricity nearly 2x as expensive as France’s
Verified account@ShellenbergerMD
Follow Follow @ShellenbergerMD
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Replying to @jmcurtin @UrsBolt and 6 others
Yeah what bargain: $580 billion for zero emissions reductions and a electricity supply over 2x more carbon-intensive and nearly 2x as expensive as electricity in France
West End Surf
New Angler
MakoMatt
Angler
AC is usually cheaper to operate in colder climates because.......... if your comfort zone say is 70 degrees and it's 90 outside, you only need to temper 20 degrees of air. If it's 32 degrees outside, you would need to temper 38 degrees of air. More energy is needed to temper 38 degrees vs 20 degrees.
captmike28
Well-Known Angler
In Jan 2018, when the South Fork Wind Farm project was still being run by Deepwater Wind, I attended a couple of the meetings held at East Hampton Town Hall, supposedly set up to gather public opinion. On the Deepwater side of the table were some engineers and folks who identified themselves as "Fisheries Biologists". Offering opposing opinions were Charter and Party Boat Captains like myself, Commercial fisherman, some University level Marine experts, and local concerned citizens.
One of the main reasons I wanted to attend was due to the fact that I received a letter along with a chart the month before indicating the area being surveyed for the potential location of the Turbines. I was shocked to see the main location considered for the 15 Turbine project was smack in the middle of Coxes Ledge. Even more concerning was the fact that a few of the "fisheries liasons" had no almost idea of the significance of the fishery taking place in the Coxes Ledge region. I showed up at the first meeting early to have a private meeting with one of the Deepwater "Experts" and showed them one of my charts that mapped out some of the more popular fishing areas that I and many other boats of the fleet from all the surrounding states in this vicinity frequently work. As I mentioned earlier, they seemed a bit surprised.
This theme of really thin, shoddy research spilled over into one of the next topics being discussed by one of their Marine Biology "experts". One hot topic was the possible negative effect of EMP's emitted during the Turbine Energy producing process on the fish in the generating area and beyond. Basically what we heard was some data from a West Coast Study done a few years prior on species not native to our own waters, and with fish kept in pens! The majority of their argument in favor of this new project was what they considered to be a big success with the 5 Turbines off the south side of Block I. They showed underwater videos of the thriving populations surrounding those structures. There is no doubt that the local boats fishing these areas since their construction are seeing positive results. However, although we currently enjoy very close access to these Turbines, myself and others pointed out that as soon as there is one potential "terrorist threat" to this system, or even a maritime accident, a wide safety zone will be imposed effectively negating the benefits to fishing close to these structures.
Then we got on to the discussion about the laying of the underwater transmission cables and where they would actually come ashore. Early last year there were 2 proposals made, one landing o the north side of Montauk Point and the other on the south side. Currently it seems like the southern route will be the choice. Regardless of which route is ultimately chosen it is hard to imagine the amount of disruption that will occur to the huge amount of commercial and recreational fishing that takes place in all the waters surrounding Montauk. Not to mention the potential longer term damage to the undersea environment. And while we are on the subject of longer term damage, as has been noted and freely admitted by the "Clean Energy" companies, these turbines have an estimated useful lifetime of 20-25 years. What type of cleanup will occur and how much debris would be left behind at the end of one cycle was only mentioned in every sketchy terms.
Finally, we had the next bomb dropped on us, the proverbial "bait and switch" mentioned in an earlier post. Not only are the "clean energy" Wind Farm folks looking at the 15 turbines for the South Fork Farm. They actually are looking at leasing, surveying and ultimately constructing 200 more Turbines in a 250 square mile area east of Block I. and north the RI and Western MA shore! The navigation hazard to commercial traffic alone that this represents boggles the mind. Also, with the tight spacing of this type of Farm, draggers will be virtually eliminated from fishing these areas.
When it comes to energy sources to "fuel" our economy and generally enhance everyone's quality of life, I tend to be an "all of the above" kind of guy. However, that is assuming that as many of the potential pitfalls of each resource are thoroughly studied in advance and historical attempts at so called "revolutionary" methods are proven to do the job with minimal downsides. I still believe that at least the good old USA is doing more than ever before to produce clean energy from fossil fuels. There is no denying that both nuclear plants and natural gas has been a huge boon to our energy independence while producing more economical methods of powering the country. Can wind and solar be viable ways to augment our energy needs in the future? I have no doubt they will but it is also very obvious that if it were economically viable to become a totally "Green" planet in just another decade the huge energy giants like Exxon and Shell, to name just two, would have already figured it out.
One of the main reasons I wanted to attend was due to the fact that I received a letter along with a chart the month before indicating the area being surveyed for the potential location of the Turbines. I was shocked to see the main location considered for the 15 Turbine project was smack in the middle of Coxes Ledge. Even more concerning was the fact that a few of the "fisheries liasons" had no almost idea of the significance of the fishery taking place in the Coxes Ledge region. I showed up at the first meeting early to have a private meeting with one of the Deepwater "Experts" and showed them one of my charts that mapped out some of the more popular fishing areas that I and many other boats of the fleet from all the surrounding states in this vicinity frequently work. As I mentioned earlier, they seemed a bit surprised.
This theme of really thin, shoddy research spilled over into one of the next topics being discussed by one of their Marine Biology "experts". One hot topic was the possible negative effect of EMP's emitted during the Turbine Energy producing process on the fish in the generating area and beyond. Basically what we heard was some data from a West Coast Study done a few years prior on species not native to our own waters, and with fish kept in pens! The majority of their argument in favor of this new project was what they considered to be a big success with the 5 Turbines off the south side of Block I. They showed underwater videos of the thriving populations surrounding those structures. There is no doubt that the local boats fishing these areas since their construction are seeing positive results. However, although we currently enjoy very close access to these Turbines, myself and others pointed out that as soon as there is one potential "terrorist threat" to this system, or even a maritime accident, a wide safety zone will be imposed effectively negating the benefits to fishing close to these structures.
Then we got on to the discussion about the laying of the underwater transmission cables and where they would actually come ashore. Early last year there were 2 proposals made, one landing o the north side of Montauk Point and the other on the south side. Currently it seems like the southern route will be the choice. Regardless of which route is ultimately chosen it is hard to imagine the amount of disruption that will occur to the huge amount of commercial and recreational fishing that takes place in all the waters surrounding Montauk. Not to mention the potential longer term damage to the undersea environment. And while we are on the subject of longer term damage, as has been noted and freely admitted by the "Clean Energy" companies, these turbines have an estimated useful lifetime of 20-25 years. What type of cleanup will occur and how much debris would be left behind at the end of one cycle was only mentioned in every sketchy terms.
Finally, we had the next bomb dropped on us, the proverbial "bait and switch" mentioned in an earlier post. Not only are the "clean energy" Wind Farm folks looking at the 15 turbines for the South Fork Farm. They actually are looking at leasing, surveying and ultimately constructing 200 more Turbines in a 250 square mile area east of Block I. and north the RI and Western MA shore! The navigation hazard to commercial traffic alone that this represents boggles the mind. Also, with the tight spacing of this type of Farm, draggers will be virtually eliminated from fishing these areas.
When it comes to energy sources to "fuel" our economy and generally enhance everyone's quality of life, I tend to be an "all of the above" kind of guy. However, that is assuming that as many of the potential pitfalls of each resource are thoroughly studied in advance and historical attempts at so called "revolutionary" methods are proven to do the job with minimal downsides. I still believe that at least the good old USA is doing more than ever before to produce clean energy from fossil fuels. There is no denying that both nuclear plants and natural gas has been a huge boon to our energy independence while producing more economical methods of powering the country. Can wind and solar be viable ways to augment our energy needs in the future? I have no doubt they will but it is also very obvious that if it were economically viable to become a totally "Green" planet in just another decade the huge energy giants like Exxon and Shell, to name just two, would have already figured it out.
Great point on being able to fish the site ....
The oil dock offshore in Northport was a place I fished many years ago ... Now there are large signs posted to keep fisherman away .....
Electric rates in Rhode Island have gone up dramatically due to the Block Island Windmills ...
Can LI afford even higher electric rates ?
The oil dock offshore in Northport was a place I fished many years ago ... Now there are large signs posted to keep fisherman away .....
Electric rates in Rhode Island have gone up dramatically due to the Block Island Windmills ...
Can LI afford even higher electric rates ?
And the "Bait & Switch" I'm dealing with was specifically planned for STATE WATERS so many Federal regulations, and their associated checks and balances, can be circumvented!!
We're now in the throes of where are the cables landing. So far no town has accepted their offers. This may be our salvation.
captmike28
Well-Known Angler
I agree with Scupper that most of the research I have done on the "actual cost" to the consumer shows the electric rates going way up to subsidize this energy source. We are already taxed to death living here on LI.
Roccus is also correct that our one saving grace may be the battles going on between the local residents and the electric companies about where the cables will ultimately reach the shore and find their way into local neighborhood substations. That was certainly a very loud argument made at the meetings I attended.
Roccus is also correct that our one saving grace may be the battles going on between the local residents and the electric companies about where the cables will ultimately reach the shore and find their way into local neighborhood substations. That was certainly a very loud argument made at the meetings I attended.
Sand beaches make for many shore access sites. We have that extra "degree of difficulty" in that the entire coast is granite ledge so landing cables is a very big deal and they lay on the seabed for their entire trip "ashore".
I am sure the local Lobster industry want nothing to do with exposed cables in areas where they like to fish .........
The Industry up there already has enough issues between the Right Whales and sourcing enough bait .......
BennyV
Well-Known Angler
They’re not. They thought they would and were told they would.
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