In a continuation of the conversation that Roger/Buddha162 and I were having in the "NJ Fishing Expo Cancelled" thread, I though best to move it all to a fresh discussion.
I had written: "Someone remind me to ask Kil what the heck is up with the reversed reel seats on his spinning rods? Why does Black Hole do that? It puts the seat's threaded nut, plus the exposed front threaded area of the seat itself directly under the front of one's hand. And that goes double if one likes to fish as I do, with most of my fingers forward of the reel stem. Kinda uncomfortable. Not a deal breaker, just not the way I prefer a rod to be constructed.
However, and on the "plus" side, even with the "backwards" reel seat, the balance of the rod, carrying my Evict2000, is just about perfecto! It “finger balances" right at the reel seat's (forward-facing) lock ring. Excellence achieved there." Lookie:
I added: " Meh, I'll fish it this season and see if it bothers me. If so, I'll perform handle surgery and rebuild it "my" way from the butt of the rod. No biggie, done it more than a few times."
To which Roger replied: "Pete, by "backwards" do you mean like this?"
No Roger, I've never actually seen a reel seat setup quite like that. To me that looks like something from a fairly expensive JDM-intended rod. What I mean is that the Black Hole spinning rod's "normal type" Fuji reel seats are mounted "backwards" on the blank, in the sense that the threads are up top, ahead of the reel. See:
This may prove irritating to the user, depending on how he/she holds the rod. I tend to put most of my fingers ahead of the reel stem, which means they are resting directly on the threaded lock nut and also partly on the seat's naked threads. This may prove annoying. I'll have to give it a few trips before I decide on a course of action. I really do like this Challenger Bank 691UL, and think that its a fine rod with which to cast lighter lures, up to say 2oz. It probably will be an awesome Albie stick or maybe throwing lite plugs up in the Bay for schoolie bass - in addition to whatever sub-3oz fluke actions you might see.
As I suggested earlier, there is a remedy for this possible ergonomic issue - mainly, stripping everything off the blank from the front of the fore grip back to the rear end of the blank - and rebuilding the entire handle area from the butt. I've done it for two of my most prized rods, so by now I'm fairly familiar with the task.
Here is my CTS BS702, as delivered from Capt. Neil, who built it to my spec's, which turned out to be less than stellar:
We (meaning mostly I) had a vision of where we were going, but in execution it never really got there. The carbon grips were mounted over arbors, and carried too much epoxy inside, over-weighing the rod by a decent amount. Also, since I've segued to rods that are intended for slow pitch jigging, what with their looong rear handle sections, I have come to appreciate their ergo's very much, and so the 13" rear handle on the CTS just wasn't doing it for me.
So using my trusty Dremel with a carbon cutoff wheel, along with my wife's $5 "Ginsu" scallop-toothed carving knife to cut off the EVA sections, I carefully removed the entire handle assembly, from the winding check rearward. As an aside, ever see a a fully wrapped rod, with its entire handle removed, down to the blank? Pretty silly looking, truth be told.
A careful sanding of the remaining handle remnants and bits of dried epoxy with a 3M fine sanding block, and the blank was ready to accept the new Winn Grips and Custom-painted Fuji reel seat. The one other tool that is indispensable is the Mud Hole Tapered Grip Reamer - which is super useful for custom adjusting the inside diameter of the grips.
Because the rod is being built from the stern, its important to go slowly with the reamer, with lots of trial fitting. If the front of the grip's internal hole is too large (because it has to be slipped on from the rear, the grip must be reamed for rear fit), a turn or two of 1/2" masking tape, and a liberal supply of rod builder's epoxy paste will lock it up. The reel seat is easier, three or four rows of masking tape and then epoxy, and good to go. The rear grip goes on after the seat's epoxy locks up, using the same ream-to-fit procedure as for the fore grip. A rubber winding check and then another one ahead of the butt grip, and finally the reamed butt grip itself and its "Good-to-Go."
The finishing touch is the Winn Grip Tape, wound over the naked blank between the rear grip and butt. A tip here is to use some 3M Scotch double-sided tape over the blank before applying the Winn tape - as the glue on the back of the Winn product looks a little fugazy to me.
A lot of words, but the results speak for themselves:
I was so impressed with the result of that surgery that I went ahead and ordered in the parts to convert my beloved Hydra MB-876 deep jigger. Once again, the concept was far better than the actual results.
Sometimes its like that. What, you think Edison got the light bulb right the first time? No, no he didn't. And let's not even get into Tesla having to school him on the advantages of A/C power. Even geniuses have bad days, so what chance does a mere mortal such as I have?
Anyway, the Hydra is up top. Not terrible, but also not what I had envisioned:
And the completed renovation:
Some careful measuring told me that in both cases, building the new handles with a much smaller fore grip allowed me to slide "everything" forward, giving me the 17" behind the reel seat that I now prefer. The single wrap of Scotch #33 electrical tape "mid-length" over the Winn Tape is to protect the Winn product from getting beaten to death in my boat's rod holders.
So anyway Roger, that's how I did my two "handle area upgrade candidates." I'm not yet ready to say that I will need to perform this procedure on my new Black Hole. But I am saying that I'm not especially vexed by the thought of making it happen, if I do find the "need." If so, I think this time I might try out the new Carbon Grips from Mudhole or Forecast - I believe they would look real fine on this particular rod, for sure.
I had written: "Someone remind me to ask Kil what the heck is up with the reversed reel seats on his spinning rods? Why does Black Hole do that? It puts the seat's threaded nut, plus the exposed front threaded area of the seat itself directly under the front of one's hand. And that goes double if one likes to fish as I do, with most of my fingers forward of the reel stem. Kinda uncomfortable. Not a deal breaker, just not the way I prefer a rod to be constructed.
However, and on the "plus" side, even with the "backwards" reel seat, the balance of the rod, carrying my Evict2000, is just about perfecto! It “finger balances" right at the reel seat's (forward-facing) lock ring. Excellence achieved there." Lookie:
I added: " Meh, I'll fish it this season and see if it bothers me. If so, I'll perform handle surgery and rebuild it "my" way from the butt of the rod. No biggie, done it more than a few times."
To which Roger replied: "Pete, by "backwards" do you mean like this?"
No Roger, I've never actually seen a reel seat setup quite like that. To me that looks like something from a fairly expensive JDM-intended rod. What I mean is that the Black Hole spinning rod's "normal type" Fuji reel seats are mounted "backwards" on the blank, in the sense that the threads are up top, ahead of the reel. See:
This may prove irritating to the user, depending on how he/she holds the rod. I tend to put most of my fingers ahead of the reel stem, which means they are resting directly on the threaded lock nut and also partly on the seat's naked threads. This may prove annoying. I'll have to give it a few trips before I decide on a course of action. I really do like this Challenger Bank 691UL, and think that its a fine rod with which to cast lighter lures, up to say 2oz. It probably will be an awesome Albie stick or maybe throwing lite plugs up in the Bay for schoolie bass - in addition to whatever sub-3oz fluke actions you might see.
As I suggested earlier, there is a remedy for this possible ergonomic issue - mainly, stripping everything off the blank from the front of the fore grip back to the rear end of the blank - and rebuilding the entire handle area from the butt. I've done it for two of my most prized rods, so by now I'm fairly familiar with the task.
Here is my CTS BS702, as delivered from Capt. Neil, who built it to my spec's, which turned out to be less than stellar:
We (meaning mostly I) had a vision of where we were going, but in execution it never really got there. The carbon grips were mounted over arbors, and carried too much epoxy inside, over-weighing the rod by a decent amount. Also, since I've segued to rods that are intended for slow pitch jigging, what with their looong rear handle sections, I have come to appreciate their ergo's very much, and so the 13" rear handle on the CTS just wasn't doing it for me.
So using my trusty Dremel with a carbon cutoff wheel, along with my wife's $5 "Ginsu" scallop-toothed carving knife to cut off the EVA sections, I carefully removed the entire handle assembly, from the winding check rearward. As an aside, ever see a a fully wrapped rod, with its entire handle removed, down to the blank? Pretty silly looking, truth be told.
A careful sanding of the remaining handle remnants and bits of dried epoxy with a 3M fine sanding block, and the blank was ready to accept the new Winn Grips and Custom-painted Fuji reel seat. The one other tool that is indispensable is the Mud Hole Tapered Grip Reamer - which is super useful for custom adjusting the inside diameter of the grips.
Because the rod is being built from the stern, its important to go slowly with the reamer, with lots of trial fitting. If the front of the grip's internal hole is too large (because it has to be slipped on from the rear, the grip must be reamed for rear fit), a turn or two of 1/2" masking tape, and a liberal supply of rod builder's epoxy paste will lock it up. The reel seat is easier, three or four rows of masking tape and then epoxy, and good to go. The rear grip goes on after the seat's epoxy locks up, using the same ream-to-fit procedure as for the fore grip. A rubber winding check and then another one ahead of the butt grip, and finally the reamed butt grip itself and its "Good-to-Go."
The finishing touch is the Winn Grip Tape, wound over the naked blank between the rear grip and butt. A tip here is to use some 3M Scotch double-sided tape over the blank before applying the Winn tape - as the glue on the back of the Winn product looks a little fugazy to me.
A lot of words, but the results speak for themselves:
I was so impressed with the result of that surgery that I went ahead and ordered in the parts to convert my beloved Hydra MB-876 deep jigger. Once again, the concept was far better than the actual results.
Sometimes its like that. What, you think Edison got the light bulb right the first time? No, no he didn't. And let's not even get into Tesla having to school him on the advantages of A/C power. Even geniuses have bad days, so what chance does a mere mortal such as I have?
Anyway, the Hydra is up top. Not terrible, but also not what I had envisioned:
And the completed renovation:
Some careful measuring told me that in both cases, building the new handles with a much smaller fore grip allowed me to slide "everything" forward, giving me the 17" behind the reel seat that I now prefer. The single wrap of Scotch #33 electrical tape "mid-length" over the Winn Tape is to protect the Winn product from getting beaten to death in my boat's rod holders.
So anyway Roger, that's how I did my two "handle area upgrade candidates." I'm not yet ready to say that I will need to perform this procedure on my new Black Hole. But I am saying that I'm not especially vexed by the thought of making it happen, if I do find the "need." If so, I think this time I might try out the new Carbon Grips from Mudhole or Forecast - I believe they would look real fine on this particular rod, for sure.
