'There's going to be no fish to fight over at all': The Chesapeake Bay's rockfish population is falling

george

Administrator
Staff member

After reading articles like this, I can't believe a slot that starts somewhere mid-20s and ends somewhere mid-30s isn't paramount in the regulators' collective minds. OK so the stock survey will be approved, and a critical part of that study is the huge mortality of released fish so the regulators are saying recs are killing more fish by returning them to the water than the ones they harvest. Oh, and BTW, this 35" size limit being proposed only has a 50% chance of being successful, so it's a "Hail Mary" ploy at best.

Before I start my rant, I need to clearly state that I do feel the bass population is dropping. To me the biggest unknown here is WHY this is happening. If we don't know the WHY, how can we really fix it??? Without clearly knowing what you're up against, you're lost.

Fishery Management depends on population models. Everyone needs to consider how this modeling works and how much depends on "hard" and "soft" data. Regrettably, the amount of hard data here is extremely limited and only includes 2 major sources.
  • Actual surveys done by individual States' DECs done by netting fish - the ONLY source of information that tells us how many fish we actually have

  • Commercial fish sales data - the only indisputable source of one of the factors removing fish. A wonderful accounting tool here is commercial tagging, a real nice handle on what's been caught. When I lived in the Midwest I'd look forward to this time of year to see nice 10 lb stripers on ice with VA tags on them at my local fish department.

OK so besides commercial harvest, what other things reduce the striped bass' critical SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass)??

  1. Natural mortality - What is causing fish to die? Things like old age, Mycobaterium infections, starvation because of inadequate forage fish supplies, pollution, poor spawns, etc. This is a "Damned if we know" number they come up with through some statistical mumbo jumbo.

  2. Unreported commercial harvesting - As fish sales at the distribution levels are being more closely monitored, this number should be relatively low

  3. Under called commercial discard mortality - Once again, this is estimated SWAG (statistical term for Silly Wild Ass Guess) number. IF they are smart, they use different discard rates for the different fisheries, e.g. pin-hooking, gill nets, trawling.

  4. Natural predation - just how many fish are being eaten by cormorants, seals, great whites, etc.?? Another number they "magically deduce".

  5. Recreational Fishing: Yes we catch and kill striped bass whether or not they end up on our dinner table or the one we threw back and ended up on Andre the Seal's dinner table. IMHO these numbers are the flimsiest of the flimsiest numbers in a fishery managers' "toolbox" The dependence on "Interviews" is ludicrously inadequate. Why do I say this?? For these reasons:
  • Serious striped bass fisherman tend to be very tight-lipped about their fishing. If someone holding a clipboard meets you in a parking lot or at a ramp asking you about how'd your bass fishing go, are you going to tell all? I'd say even the most loquacious striped bass fisherman wouldn't say much more than "Not bad".

  • Survey sampling techniques tends to focus on the less serious striped bass fisherman. The "Clipboard Brigade" is usually seen during Banker's Hours at popular places. Excluding Maine, how much striped bass fishing is actually done at those times and in popular places??? Yeah, I can fish in the middle of the day and bail fish...

  • Is the For-hire fleet being truthful in any surveys they answer? Let's face it, some of these folks know that they "have the right to remain silent" and that means under reporting their catches underestimates the number of bass caught so folks will think the quotas are not being met and there are more stripers around.

  • In Maine, there was a single survey taker during 2018, located at the southern end of the state. That means folks like me and my "across the river, backyard neighbor" who's another LIS-trained striped bass lunatic, were never surveyed. The result? Over 3000 caught striped bass by us the past 2 seasons were not accounted for. In Maine, that is a significant chunk of the total catch.
So in the end the statisticians do their modeling and calculations, and compare how many fish they THINK the SSB should be, as opposed to what the actual surveys say it is. It seems that in this latest stock assessment these Nobel Laureates (NOT) decided that the discrepancy between the SSB model and the new SSB survey MUST be do to Recreational Discards, and did NOT consider any of the other possible causes above. IMO opinion it's probably a combination of all of the numbered possibilities above, but I have no idea how to apportion it out among all of these factors

THEREFORE the OFFICIAL STATED CAUSE for the discrepancy between the actual and predicted biomass is RECREATIONAL DISCARDS, their reasoning, not mine. Do they actually believe that the recreational discards are the cause or they are using discards as a smoke screen for one or all of the items above to reconcile the drop in the SSB vs what they expected per their models??

However, if we accept the survey results, we are accepting that Recreational Discards are the cause for the SSB drop. Based on this, why in Poseidon's Name would any logical person suggest to raise the size limit, which will increase discards, as the method of choice to reduce mortality???? Wouldn't instituting a slot in the mid-20" to mid-30" range, something that will lower the discard rate, and therefore reduce overall mortality, be a better, more effective course of action???

OK, just spent 2 hours on this, time to post some young lovlies in the Good Morning thread...
 
However, if we accept the survey results, we are accepting that Recreational Discards are the cause for the SSB drop. Based on this, why in Poseidon's Name would any logical person suggest to raise the size limit, which will increase discards, as the method of choice to reduce mortality???? Wouldn't instituting a slot in the mid-20" to mid-30" range, something that will lower the discard rate, and therefore reduce overall mortality, be a better, more effective course of action???

Amen
 
Unfortunately no matter what size limit or slot it will not stop anglers from catch and release. Unless you stop them after their keeper, which is very unpopular.
 
Unfortunately no matter what size limit or slot it will not stop anglers from catch and release. Unless you stop them after their keeper, which is very unpopular.

In my case, I have to disagree since I know it certainly shortens my time on the water, but then again I'm weird.

Regardless, I still think we need a slot with a cap. Allowing the "1" fish to be a large, prime breeder is insane. There was a paper recently published that clearly demonstrated that the larger the fish, the more eggs per lb were delivered, e.g. a 20 lb female releases more eggs that 2, 10 lb fish combined.

We are dealing with certifiable fishery management idiots here...
 
Last edited:
I am going to just cherry pick some stuff, and bounce it around the room. My experience is long(40 years total, starting on Point Lookout Pier, where you could catch giant fluke at will, ending with 25 years in the surf, and a little comm boat tog bsb in between) and anecdotal at best, so my opinions are just that, opinions. In short, I am more concerned with the health of this particular fishery, than I am about most other things in life, for better or for worse.
This fishery is connected to many others, and they are all in trouble, save the select few. So here we go, hoping to add to the conversation, and bring up other points that are somewhat connected to your original ideas.


Commercial fish sales data - the only indisputable source of one of the factors removing fish. A wonderful accounting tool here is commercial tagging, a real nice handle on what's been caught. When I lived in the Midwest I'd look forward to this time of year to see nice 10 lb stripers on ice with VA tags on them at my local fish department.

This is a valid tool. However, it does not take into account 'immediate pressure' to a school of fish. Side sonar, hundreds of boats criss crossing(hmm, why is it taking so long to find these fish with all these boats out here), call goes out, all boats decend and pluck the best and brightest. Not illegal, just 'immediate pressure' the likes of which our bass are not accustomed to, and may not survive in numbers we have become accustomed to.

I am selfishly, not concened in the least bit with our local shore's treasure finding it's way to people's dinner table. Just so someone can say i ate a striper.
I tell you what all you striper eaters, how about a 5 year full on shore wide moratorium. Then you can eat all the bass you want in years 6-20, then another moratorium, geez history sucks dont it?



OK so besides commercial harvest, what other things reduce the striped bass' critical SSB (Spawning Stock Biomass)??

.5 Immediate pressure - See Cape Cod Canal blitzes. If you have not seen one up close and personal, do so, you will see what i mean about immediate pressure. it was 10x worse when it was 2 @ 28, but even with one it gets hairy with the running of the fish up to the bushes or back to the car. unless you just bring a garbage bag ;) not to mention the big fish days, i mean weeks, or is it months, geez

  1. Natural mortality - What is causing fish to die? Things like old age, Mycobaterium infections, starvation because of inadequate forage fish supplies, pollution, poor spawns, etc. This is a "Damned if we know" number they come up with through some statistical mumbo jumbo
All of that is valid, myco and dead bunker top my list there. saw the myco in the mid 90's, just gross.

Unreported commercial harvesting - As fish sales at the distribution levels are being more closely monitored, this number should be relatively low

no comment
  1. Under called commercial discard mortality - Once again, this is estimated SWAG (statistical term for Silly Wild Ass Guess) number. IF they are smart, they use different discard rates for the different fisheries, e.g. pin-hooking, gill nets, trawling.
estimated yes, but the discard numbers are huge, and imho do not make any sense. gill nets are still legal? oye

  1. Natural predation - just how many fish are being eaten by cormorants, seals, great whites, etc.?? Another number they "magically deduce".
This is a huge number. How huge you ask? Well. how is this for starters, there is no more swimming on the most beautiful beaches of Cape Cod. Shark flags rule the day! The huge number up here used to be the amount of bass in every nook and cranny of the coast. Now it's seals, commorants, scup, and black sea bass. Few bass and no swimming, why would i go to the Cape?! Oh, to see the great whites!!! That little tourist boom is gonna wear off soon, cuz they are getting them up inside the hook on the baylike beaches too, not just out front. yikes :0
  1. Recreational Fishing: Yes we catch and kill striped bass whether or not they end up on our dinner table or the one we threw back and ended up on Andre the Seal's dinner table. IMHO these numbers are the flimsiest of the flimsiest numbers in a fishery managers' "toolbox" The dependence on "Interviews" is ludicrously inadequate. Why do I say this?? For these reasons:
this is the ugly truth, i see seals, i go home. i wont feed them my releases, and since i take zero, hence i stop casting, and now the seals are stalking us at night. tougher to see your nemisis, but just shine your light out there. lots of hungry eyes looking back at you.
  • Serious striped bass fisherman tend to be very tight-lipped about their fishing. If someone holding a clipboard meets you in a parking lot or at a ramp asking you about how'd your bass fishing go, are you going to tell all? I'd say even the most loquacious striped bass fisherman wouldn't say much more than "Not bad".
Very true, that is how i treat them. But nowadays, the fishery is so dire, the fish are only in one or two places, at best(see Montauk, see no fish). So all these 'managers' have to do is go down to the boiling fish river called the cape cod canal, and see what's left of the entire fishery with their own eyes(oh, i forgot there are still fish out in the rips of block island, oye)
  • Survey sampling techniques tends to focus on the less serious striped bass fisherman. The "Clipboard Brigade" is usually seen during Banker's Hours at popular places. Excluding Maine, how much striped bass fishing is actually done at those times and in popular places??? Yeah, I can fish in the middle of the day and bail fish...

  • Is the For-hire fleet being truthful in any surveys they answer? Let's face it, some of these folks know that they "have the right to remain silent" and that means under reporting their catches underestimates the number of bass caught so folks will think the quotas are not being met and there are more stripers around.
Ok, but what's the deal with the quotas. They had an impossible time filling the quota last year. They just could not find the fish, and they are not allowed inside fish river :0 To my eyes, if they cant fill a quota, there aint enuff fish swimmin around. Anecdotal at best, but i like the eye test better than all others. Some like numbers, numbers lie, eyes rarely do.
  • In Maine, there was a single survey taker during 2018, located at the southern end of the state. That means folks like me and my "across the river, backyard neighbor" who's another LIS-trained striped bass lunatic, were never surveyed. The result? Over 3000 caught striped bass by us the past 2 seasons were not accounted for. In Maine, that is a significant chunk of the total catch.
Good point, i'm still far more concerned with nets, bycatch, bunker, etc...


However, if we accept the survey results, we are accepting that Recreational Discards are the cause for the SSB drop. Based on this, why in Poseidon's Name would any logical person suggest to raise the size limit, which will increase discards, as the method of choice to reduce mortality???? Wouldn't instituting a slot in the mid-20" to mid-30" range, something that will lower the discard rate, and therefore reduce overall mortality, be a better, more effective course of action???

Excellent point, it is logical that the more fish you sort through, the more will die. Especially if you are feeding Andre' without regard to your situation of being in seal city. This is why the 36" minimum helps restore the population, because there will be so many fewer anglers out there hunting for them. The minute 2 @ 28" was instituted, everyone became a hero, and all their cousins bought gear . Now, all those new guys are sitting in their truck or on their ass waiting for you to hook a fish. Make it 36" they all go home.

We did 2@28 forever, why cant we reverse the trend with a few years of zero for the better of the team? just food for thought.

So, to me, 36" is an angler deterrent. The way more fish survive, is that less people fish for them. Definitely sucks for those in the business of bass, but how much business will there be if things keep going in this direction? just sayin'.

I suggest recreational tags. 15 fish per year, that's it. 36" minimum size. This puts an end to the overfishing but good, and gives serious anglers a decent framework to stay within. Cut comms by 50% off the bat, and see where that goes. Still a negative trend after 5 years of reduced harvest, then a moratoruim in 2025.

Do they figure the 'poacher number' into the final count? They may take more than the seals.

I've gone on too long, gotta get ready to fish tomorrow ;)

keep'em tight everyone.
 
Do they figure the 'poacher number' into the final count? They may take more than the seals.

I don't think they know that number ....... "you want to know the truth ? they can't handle the truth ! "

The solution is to take the money out of the fish. Blackfish are a prime example. Its no different with the Stripers.
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Latest articles

Latest posts

Back
Top