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[Leprechaun]

Tough start to the season, but NICE fish Captain Mike!

 

[Aquarius]

.......................

Jones inlet is beyond bad this morning ...all breakers no clear path out..and they were tight & tall all white water ...

Hmmmm. NY Harbor buoy showed a 3 ft swell most of the day Wednesday. Low slack water was 10:02 AM and high slack was 3:33 PM. So early morning you would have had the water running out into the waves. The trip home should have been a little better with incoming current going with the swell.

I fear the inlet conditions are going to have an effect on the ocean fluking out of Jones this summer.

 

[Capt Richie]

AM inlet was 5' breakers from the east jetty to the end of the west bar..even in the channel ...once you were out it was 3' with a tight 2' chop till 1030 ish & than lay down to nothing my 1130 ish..I dont wear a watch so guessing on the time..

I run a 32' sportfish at 11+ tons & the breakers washed over the boat ,,just no way to avoid them...I was doing 18kts but once out just a swell & a chop for a few hours...

running in, south swell inlet was nice 22kts on auto pilot ..

 

[Aquarius]

AM inlet was 5' breakers from the east jetty to the end of the west bar..even in the channel ...once you were out it was 3' with a tight 2' chop till 1030 ish & than lay down to nothing my 1130 ish..I dont wear a watch so guessing on the time..

I run a 32' sportfish at 11+ tons & the breakers washed over the boat ,,just no way to avoid them...I was doing 18kts but once out just a swell & a chop for a few hours...

running in, south swell inlet was nice 22kts on auto pilot ..

NOAA calling for 3 to 5 on Sunday with 5 to 10 knt wind from the west. Something must be kicking up far offshore.

High slack at 6:51 AM and low slack at 1:20 PM. That means a really rough ride out in the morning and relative calm for the return trip as long as you return after the current starts moving in.

SUN
W winds 5 to 10 kt. Seas 3 to 5 ft.

Still not looking real promising for a trip to the ocean on Sunday.

 

[Capt Richie]

what makes you say AM high will be bad ? High more water less, smaller waves in the inlet.. I left at the end of the out going & it was bad came in top of the out going & it was nice

 

[Aquarius]

High Slack in the AM means that after that time, until low slack, the water will be flowing out of the inlet against the incoming waves. It has been my observation that the rougher water is on the outgoing current and that the level of the tide has less to do with the sea conditions. Of course I would rather have deeper water, but usually the inlet is more doable on the flood current regardless of the tide height.

 

[Capt Richie]

High more water less wave height ... than why does it lay down as soon as you pass the low spots ? as it did yesterday end of outgoing ..and every other time

 

[Aquarius]

High more water less wave height ... than why does it lay down as soon as you pass the low spots ? as it did yesterday end of outgoing ..and every other time

When the water pushes against the waves it makes the distance between them shorter. I causes them to build in height and steepness, hence a greater tendency to break. When the waves and water move in the same direction, the distance between the waves increases and the seas flatten. When the water gets shallow, the same volume from deep areas must pass through that area. The only way the same volume can pass through is for it to increase in velocity making the wave steepness or flattening more pronounced. In general waves start to break when the depth of the water equals the wave height. "In General!" There are many variables. If the waves are steeper and closer together, they will break in water that is deeper than the wave is high.

I am not sure what you experienced on Wednesday since I wasn't on board. You said the seas laid down about 11:30. Maybe that had something to do with it. I first passed through Jones Inlet in 1975 and this is what I have observed since. The current tables are not 100% accurate either. The wind and other factors affect the accuracy of the times that are published. High Tide and low tide do not correspond to high slack and low slack. They are about an hour apart. That means while water is flowing out of Jones Inlet, the height of the tide can continue to increase even though the water is flowing out.

 

[Capt Richie]

if you say so ..I must of been dreaming..

so I said it was the end of the outgoing dead low ...and at mid to high it was much better on the outgoing ..

 

[george]

Took the “Busman’s Holiday” today to enjoy the fabulous weather and see if the warmer weather had improved the Fluke bite in the Peconics.

I spent the last 3/12 hours of ebb just east of Greenport with a light NW breeze and pretty steady drift on the drops that produced about a dozen Fluke, but only 3 small keepers over the weekend. The never-ending supply of birds made things a bit frustrating but I persevered. Although the Sea Bass and Blues were still present the Fluke virtually disappeared with one exception. After striking out on the typically productive drops I moved a little west to the area where we actually had a 20-minute flurry on Sunday taking 6 Fluke and one keeper near slack water. On my second drift here, I get a solid hit on my 6” Gulp grub and following a spirited, drag stripping battle, the first quality Fluke of the season finds the deck. Right to the scale where it records 7.1# and quickly into the box as I am filled with hope.

Despite this bright spot, the rest of the day finished the way it started, Birds, Blues, Sea Bass, Porgies, but not even one more short Fluke. Made drops all they way from Greenport to the Greenlawns but very quiet on the Fluke front. While I am not even close to giving up on the local Fluke scene, I must say I can’t wait for next week’s full moon when keeper sized Stripers will be making an appearance at the Gut.

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Nice fish there Capt! What's your take on the lack of fluke entering the Peconic system. It's beginning to look like last year when fluke catches were great in Montauk and along the entire south shore for that matter. And the Peconic and sound have been pretty barren? It almost seems like the fluke are passing us right by. Buy why? I know it's too early to tell, but I've been seeing this same pattern in the sound for 3-4 years now, with each year getting tougher.

Plenty of bait, but little action on both fluke and birds. If you're not fishing porgies or striped bass you're just not catching.

 

[Aquarius]

if you say so ..I must of been dreaming..

so I said it was the end of the outgoing dead low ...and at mid to high it was much better on the outgoing ..

I am not trying to start, nor win any arguments. Every year someone gets killed in that inlet and this year unfortunately will most likely not be an exception. I am just pointing out what I have observed in this, and other inlets. I will make my decision as to heading offshore based on the direction of the current for my return trip. If others want to plan their day around the height of the tide, then so be it. I am just pointing out the way that I stay out of trouble.

 

[Leprechaun]

Potato/Patato. Whatever. All I know is JI sux worse every single year. Hate that transit nowadays.

 

[Capt Richie]

its the worst I have even seen it in twenty five years of traveling through it... I heard hug the green cans..Not sure but I'll check the depth next time out...

its time to dredge it ,,

 

[Leprechaun]

Can you get your big boat thru by transiting next to the jetty? Maybe not enough water up front when less than 1/2 tide?

 

[Capt Richie]

Can you get your big boat thru by transiting next to the jetty? Maybe not enough water up front when less than 1/2 tide?

its was gone on the way out ..Was headed to it and I change direction & used the channel ,,Channel was all white water.. I did use it on the way in..But stupid me did check the depth ..

I know last year it was 6 to 8' under the boat at dead low so 10 to 13' of water..and just for a second ..but looked really bad wed. morning...going to have to see how the party boat are going out a low ..west end I would stay away from ...

its the days when it kicks up late & low tide smaller boats & CC are going to have real problems ...I would have turned around if I was in the 22'

 

[Leprechaun]

I buried my bow up to the top of the windshield early last season, right at the front of the inlet, in the middle of the "marked channel." Scared the crap out of myself. 25 years with this boat, been through "some stuff" and never had water on the fore deck before. First time I've looked thru the windshields and saw the solid green inside of a wave. Frankly, greatly surprised that the windshields didn't blow in. I was still weak-kneed 2 hours later. Did manage a solo limit later that morning though, so there's that. . .

 

[Capt Richie]

I would of also... happened to me in the 28 grady so happy I sold that POS..
wonder if its on a list to be dredged ? anyone know how to find out ? its a hazard of navigation..swell on for the next few days ..I'll bay fish ..

 

[captmike28]

Nice fish there Capt! What's your take on the lack of fluke entering the Peconic system. It's beginning to look like last year when fluke catches were great in Montauk and along the entire south shore for that matter. And the Peconic and sound have been pretty barren? It almost seems like the fluke are passing us right by. Buy why? I know it's too early to tell, but I've been seeing this same pattern in the sound for 3-4 years now, with each year getting tougher.

Plenty of bait, but little action on both fluke and birds. If you're not fishing porgies or striped bass you're just not catching.

Sorry for the tardy reply George but I have been trying to really think hard about what could be causing this shift in the Fluke action. I am mot a fisheries biologist but feel as though I have pretty good powers of observation and accurate records.

Like we have all speculated for some time now, reductions this dramatic are usually the result of many factors. Most of us have noted changes in water temperature, more pollution, increases in species that may be consuming Fluke fry as part of their diet. What about changes in salinity or pH? Has anybody studied this seriously or long enough to make any reasonable predictions?

For a while many of us thought it was a lack of bait. I do recall back in the early to mid 80"s there was so much squid in the Peconic Bay system that the Prime Time would actually run night Squid Trips for the customer s to load up both for bait and human consumption purposes. That hasn't happened in decades. This year myself and many others have noted a pretty large uptick in the amount of squid we are marking on our machines plus seeing some of the Fluke spit up. And still the early bite has been slow. It looks like it may have picked up a bit these last few days with the warm spell but it could also be an anomaly. I hope not as I have several local Fluke trips booked in the coming weeks.

Several have commented that the overall Biomass is depressed. I kind of feel there is a lot of truth to that belief. Although we had a good Fluke season off Montauk last summer it was not as strong as the 2-4 years prior to that. Plus the steady bite didn't really take off there until mid July about 2 weeks later than usual. And heaven knows what has happened to the Gardiners' Island bite that used to be so steady from mid June through late July. That fishery has been all but dead for at least the past 3 years.

I know a lot of folks would like to take the easy route and just blame the commercials. I also know, as you have stated, that the daily quotas, at least for NY vessels, is pretty small. However, I do not know what the limits are for other vessels form adjacent states and those who target the species on the continental shelf over the winter.

So, yes it is complex problem and I sure hope we can figure it out while there are still enough Fluke around to rebuild the stock throughout our region.

 

[BoatGuy]

Sorry for the tardy reply George but I have been trying to really think hard about what could be causing this shift in the Fluke action. I am mot a fisheries biologist but feel as though I have pretty good powers of observation and accurate records.

Like we have all speculated for some time now, reductions this dramatic are usually the result of many factors. Most of us have noted changes in water temperature, more pollution, increases in species that may be consuming Fluke fry as part of their diet. What about changes in salinity or pH? Has anybody studied this seriously or long enough to make any reasonable predictions?

For a while many of us thought it was a lack of bait. I do recall back in the early to mid 80"s there was so much squid in the Peconic Bay system that the Prime Time would actually run night Squid Trips for the customer s to load up both for bait and human consumption purposes. That hasn't happened in decades. This year myself and many others have noted a pretty large uptick in the amount of squid we are marking on our machines plus seeing some of the Fluke spit up. And still the early bite has been slow. It looks like it may have picked up a bit these last few days with the warm spell but it could also be an anomaly. I hope not as I have several local Fluke trips booked in the coming weeks.

Several have commented that the overall Biomass is depressed. I kind of feel there is a lot of truth to that belief. Although we had a good Fluke season off Montauk last summer it was not as strong as the 2-4 years prior to that. Plus the steady bite didn't really take off there until mid July about 2 weeks later than usual. And heaven knows what has happened to the Gardiners' Island bite that used to be so steady from mid June through late July. That fishery has been all but dead for at least the past 3 years.

I know a lot of folks would like to take the easy route and just blame the commercials. I also know, as you have stated, that the daily quotas, at least for NY vessels, is pretty small. However, I do not know what the limits are for other vessels form adjacent states and those who target the species on the continental shelf over the winter.

So, yes it is complex problem and I sure hope we can figure it out while there are still enough Fluke around to rebuild the stock throughout our region.

A well thought out reply.

I have enjoyed the discussions over multiple posts on why the fishing is in the state it is in. I have been wondering about this ever since the winter flounder I used to catch and enjoy eating disappeared. I have asked myself why have Weakfish returned. Black Sea Bass, once a bi-catch and now more numerous.

I now realize the answer will most likely be several factors. Singling out draggers, cormorants and seals without consideration is climate change, turbidity, salinity, drainage storm impact and loss of habitats all may be implicated. Pollution due to cesspools may not only effect fish but is tainting our drinking water.

I have started to ask questions to others more knowledgeable than myself. I exchanged emails with Captain Paul Risi, who has opened my eyes to more than I ever considered. It is not a simple answer and factors we have not even considered may be found to play and important part.

*DEEP SIGN* I don’t have the answers. This puzzle may be with us for some time.

 

[Leprechaun]

So whatever happened to the huge mats of eel grass that used to float out to sea from the GSB? I can remember having to make big detours in the bay, so to not completely foul our prop. Many times they were so large that they stretched for a 100' - in some cases completely blocking the narrower channels in the Massapequa/Seaford area. Those mats were well known to be the nursing ground for all sorts of fish fry - most especially, baby weakfish. I think the loss of much of our eel grass has also been a big contributor to the deterioration of our bay fishing. What killed the eel grass? I dunno. Changes in salinity? Excess turbidity? Some other issue? No idea. But also no more grass mats in my area.