New Skinner Dark Matter light SPINNING rod

[Flukinit]

Was at J&H today and the heavier spinner is in stock and was able to see and hold the the lighter snap jigging stick which is not in stock yet only the proto type. The heavier rod seemed real nice for jigging fluke and tog. Its a lighter blue that the conventional darker blue rods Seemed very nice my only issue was and its only due to my size as Im 6'6" was I would have liked the rear butt 2" longer than the current 11.5 or so it is. The fore grip is 6.5 or so it would have been excellent if the fore grip was 4.5 and the rear 13.5 -14" so I can tuck the butt under my arm for some leverage when needed on those larger fish. At current lenght i cant do it that. The grips were a cross between winn grips and xgrip had a very nice feel to them. They charge $199 for them not gonna get it due to the lenght of the rear grip but that shouldn't be an issue for anyone 6'3" or less as that rear butt will be long enough. Your looking for a stick for this application go check it out.
The lighter snap jig stick is very light and has corks grips probably 3" fore grip and 7" rear while a nice rod I didnt get past the small grips just not my cup of tea. Would be a real nice stick for bay jigging and tossing small leadheads. If the shorter grips dont bother you check it out any real nice blank this one is $179. I attached pics of both from the J&H website.

 

[Leprechaun]

I just watched this vid - towards the end the ocean calms down and so he gives this rod a good workout - the blank does have a very nice moderate action to it:



I do agree about the short-ish butt. If we're talking FLUKE fishing, please tell me the last time anyone used the foregrip of a spinning rod for more leverage - other than in the cover photo of that link? I don't think I've ever done that while fluke fishing.

I would have gone with a 2" foregrip from Winn and then there'd be more than enough remaining rod length to set it up with a nice long rear grip area, behind the reel seat. If you ever do need to reach up ahead of the reel, you could still grab the 2" foregrip and some of the blank itself.

FW bass guys typically use rods with NO foregrip - and just grab the blank ahead of the seat, if they need to. And who abuses their rods on big fish more than a tournament FW bass guy, who regularly rip 6lb+ fish right out of a weed bed? One hand on the reel, one hand on the blank ahead of the reel - and heave-ho! Talk about rod abuse! Good thing most of those guys are sponsored. No way I'd do anything like that were I paying the freight!

Back to "our" fluke fishing - longer butt sections are now all the rage in a jigging rod, because you normally use that extra length to stabilize the rod under your forearm whilst jigging; and when reeling in a fish putting the butt into your armpit makes all the difference.

Shimano pioneered this layout years ago in their original Trevala S series - which were excellent value for what they offered. Of course Shimano didn't invent this "long butt jigging rod thing" - it was around for years and years in Asia. But what Shimano did do was introduce long butt, light-action jigging rods to the American public - at a price that most could afford.

I know how to perform the surgery required to make this rod's grip area more "armpit-friendly," (See: How To Turn a Perfectly Good Custom Stick Into a Better One - Hopefully! ). However, doing so on a brand new rod will certainly void the warranty - if that matters to you. And of course this type of radical modification is NOT for the faint-of-heart. It is certainly doable though.

If what you are looking for is more butt length in a spin jigging rod, a solid choice would be a Shimano Grappler Type J - which even in the 6' version features a 13.25" rear grip. Of course a Grappler is at least a hundy more than than the new Skinner spinner - but you get what you pay for. If you want to keep the cost down, then the new Trevala PX series has a bunch of spinners in it, all with long-ish butts, at right around $200 or so - as are the new gray-colored Daiwa Harriers.

I really do like the blank action on this new Skinner though, so there's that . . .

 

[Flukinit]

Pete I agree with you on the fore grip 2" would have been plenty. Its the longer butt I was looking for to tuck under your arm for some leverage especially when tog fishing. But the rod did have nice action on it.

 

[Leprechaun]

O.K., so this was a little confusing (to me), but I think I've got it figured out. The spinning rod in the video is the heavier version, which is rated 2-6oz. Its the one with the full Winn Grip handle. My friend Kevin had it aboard my boat yesterday, and gave it a good work out.

Don't be misguided by the "heavy-ish" lure rating, it is most certainly NOT a heavy action rod, not at all. What it IS is a very nice stick for ocean fluke jigging, with an excellent bendo, as the video illustrates. It appears quite well built and light as feather. I believe Kevin had his matched with a 2500 or 3000 Vanford, which worked out well.

I watched that rod through most of the day and I have to say, even with the "not slow pitch rod butt length" it really looked to be a very comfortable to fish for hours at a time. I would not hesitate to recommend you check it out, if you're in the market for such a rod - I liked what I saw yesterday a lot!

Oh, and I also think it would make a fine tog jigger as well - so there's that too.

 

[longcast]

Vanford 2500

And yes, very comfortable to use. I was impressed with the rod.

 

[Flukinit]

Pete you are correct dont go off the heavy rod seemed nice for 1-3/4 oz jigs. J&H just refer it as the heavy over the lighter snap jig rod. Really nice handles and set up as I said in the 1st post if the rear grip was 13.5 instead of the 11.5 I wod have bought it. But i like tucking the butt under my arm for extra leverage especially for the Tog which that rod is made for that and ocean fluking.

 

[Leprechaun]

Here's a vid of the heavy spinner in action. Nice "bendy curve" on this blank.

 

[Flukinit]

Pete as I said in an earlier post the rod is really nicely made with a nice moderate bend. I would have bought it but cant tuck the butt under my arm with the 11,5 butt. Would have been ideal of they shortened up the fore grip from a ridiculous 7.5" to 5.5" and extend the butt the 13.5 would have been a great rod. My search for a nice ocean fluke jigging/tog jigging spinner blank.

 

[NoFlukenName]

Pete as I said in an earlier post the rod is really nicely made with a nice moderate bend. I would have bought it but cant tuck the butt under my arm with the 11,5 butt. Would have been ideal of they shortened up the fore grip from a ridiculous 7.5" to 5.5" and extend the butt the 13.5 would have been a great rod. My search for a nice ocean fluke jigging/tog jigging spinner blank.

Joe - my opinion and my opinion ONLY - I think you really need to look for two different rods. For tog jigging, you want a very soft tip to feel the subtle difference between a bergal (pick your nuisance fish here) bite and a good sized tog bite. For ocean fluking, you want something stiffer to put motion on the jig.

I have a video out from last year where two of my customers were jigging with Nigh Ranger spinning rods and couldn't catch a keeper while a third angler with a soft, light set up almost limited the boat by himself in under an hour. I don't remember his rod make, but it's very similar to the tog jigging rods I prefer that are akin to a slow pitch rod - soft tip and lots of bend on top of the rod that really lets you feel the ones "running" with the tog jig. A stiffer rod (like the Night Ranger) will have the sensitivity you need to feel each bite, but won't adequately allow you to tell the difference between the wrong and right bight. I think some folks confuse that sensitivity and think that automatically makes it a good tog jigging rod.

Again, just my 2 cents.

John

 

[Flukinit]

Joe - my opinion and my opinion ONLY - I think you really need to look for two different rods. For tog jigging, you want a very soft tip to feel the subtle difference between a bergal (pick your nuisance fish here) bite and a good sized tog bite. For ocean fluking, you want something stiffer to put motion on the jig.

I have a video out from last year where two of my customers were jigging with Nigh Ranger spinning rods and couldn't catch a keeper while a third angler with a soft, light set up almost limited the boat by himself in under an hour. I don't remember his rod make, but it's very similar to the tog jigging rods I prefer that are akin to a slow pitch rod - soft tip and lots of bend on top of the rod that really lets you feel the ones "running" with the tog jig. A stiffer rod (like the Night Ranger) will have the sensitivity you need to feel each bite, but won't adequately allow you to tell the difference between the wrong and right bight. I think some folks confuse that sensitivity and think that automatically makes it a good tog jigging rod.

Again, just my 2 cents.

John

Thanks John I totally understand what your saying. I remember that video the other guy had a Centaur Constellation. I think on the Skinner blank as I said was made very nicely but I dont like the grip layout. Butt is a little to short would have been great if it was the same as his 2 conventional rods.

 

[Leprechaun]

Twist and turn with all these different rods we discuss here, but I STILL think the Shimano Grapplers are the best overall fluke/tog jigging rods available for our area, in the under-$300 price class.

My own Type J spinners (ML - fluke/tog, M - tog) have been killin' it for two seasons now. Very impressed with the overall performance envelope of this series of factory rods and see no need for further upgrades in my own arsenal - and that's a serious admission for one such as I. Eff the Tackle Monkey!

They're just not that pretty shade of baby blue.

There are many more types of Grapplers, in serveral series, including casting (Type C), light jigging (Type LJ) and slow pitch (you guessed it: Type SP) and all are very, very nice pieces.

 

[Water Dog]

Check out the nice slob of a tog on the ML Skinner jigging spinner at the 10 minute mark. I know much has been said about the short butt section of these rods, however when I’m on my kayak,I actually prefer rods with shorter butts.

 

[Leprechaun]

Yes, that makes sense. In fact one rod company, frankly, I forget which one, did market a series of rods intended for the kayak fisherman. Short butts, longer than normal tip sections - I don't think they ever took off. Maybe too few kayakers? Who knows? Damn, I wish I could remember the rod company I am talking about. . .

Anyway, the rod we were mainly referencing with the too short butt is not the one in the pic. Its the heavier one, with the Winn Grips.

 

[HighHook4Hire]

It was Croix Lep. Just in case you were not being facetious.

Yes, that makes sense. In fact one rod company, frankly, I forget which one, did market a series of rods intended for the kayak fisherman. Short butts, longer than normal tip sections - I don't think they ever took off. Maybe too few kayakers? Who knows? Damn, I wish I could remember the rod company I am talking about. . .

Anyway, the rod we were mainly referencing with the too short butt is not the one in the pic. Its the heavier one, with the Winn Grips

 

[Leprechaun]

Yes, that was it! Saint Croix! And no, I wasn’t being facetious, just being old.

 

[Water Dog]

Yup, the Mojo Yak series. Total opposite end of the spectrum where the rod bit was comically waaaay too short!

 

[Occh639]

This is a different subject and rod but I wanted to show anybody that might be interested in a new conventional rod for Blackfishing using sinkers. So, I recently moved to an area of L.I. onthe south shore that doesn’t have a lot of structure for me to enjoy my favorite method of Blackfishing, light spinning gear with jigs. So, after a detailed phone conversation with our very own Captain Mike Brady I realized that I will be doing more traditional rig Blackfishing out in deeper water with moving currents. For years I fished the western sound for Tog in my 19” Mako CC in water that was 15-30 ft using light spinning gear and jigs. So, I am extremely happy where I moved to ,but I’m not so happy swapping that type of fishing for 10-12 ounces of lead in screaming currents.
Anyway, I went to J & H recently and told them I needed something for Togging with lead for like Orient Pt And eastern end type fishing with a lot of current and depth. He talked me into a Dark Matter 731. This whole line of rods were a little cheaper version of the Black hole Challenger Bank rods. Super sensitive and light but plenty of backbone. I had both brands in my hand and I was very impressed with the DM , and it was $100 cheaper than the Black hole. I gave the rod a try in Mtk. last Thursday and I loved it. I held that rod all day and did not get tired . It’s super light with great sensitivity. I had 8-10oz on it and it was fine. Probably could go to 12oz would be my guess. So, if anyone needs this type of rod go give it feel. I think you will be impressed.
PS only thing is that it’s acid wrapped if that’s a problem . I would have preferred a traditional guide arrangement, but to be honest I didn’t mind it all.
BTW, there is also a Dark Matter 701 Light spinning rod just like the Blackhole 701 Light. I know that the 701 L is preferred by many good Tog jig fisherman .For the record , I am not saying Dark Matter makes a better rod than Blackhole, I love BH products ,I own a Blackhole rod myself. I’m just trying to make a comparison and J &H was clearly in my opinion targeting the Blackhole Rod market ,specifically the Challenger Bank models. J&H even used the exact same

size rods and ratings as BH.
Here is the rod

 

[Ejc317]

Can anyone properly compare a black hole and a dark matter rod?

 

[Leprechaun]

I've owned a few BH rods over the years and one of my regular crew uses a bunch of the Skinner Dark Matter rods - both spinning and baitcasting versions. Both brands are nice, with an quality edge to the BH rods, in my opinion, anyway. Nothing wrong with the DM rods though - and I do like their moderate actions a lot.

Don't forget, BH has several lines of rods - I've owned the Challenger Bank 691UL spinner and a pair of the Charter Specials. I sold the Challenger Bank because it wasn't ideal for the purpose I had in mind. Replaced it with a 6' Shimano Grappler Type "J" ML spinner and couldn't be happier. It slays the fluke when the drift dies and I need to cast around to induce strikes.

I still have the 6’9” BH Charter Specials in both spinning and baitcasting. The spinner I don't use all that much, but the baitcaster comes with me every fluking trip, as its my "go-to" when I have to fish with more than 6oz of weight to hold bottom where I fish. It handles that job in fine fashion - I recommend it highly.

My buddy uses his heavier DM baitcaster for that application and seems perfectly content with its performance. Oh, and if it makes a difference to you, the DM rods are MUCH prettier.