Spring nor any other closures for Ocean fishing, nor Hudson River were not in this package. IF October's Stock Assessment is bad, I think we'll be talking about those come in 2025.
Draft Striped Bass Addendum II Out
- Thread starter Roccus7
- Start date
hawk375
New Angler
lets stick to facts george the average commercial fish is under 10 lbs as most come from bay fishery the fact is the asmfc has given the whole catch to recs 2022 landings comm 680815 fish recs 6121867 when reduction was put in place comm catch down rec didnt if this was any other plan recs would get bigger hit in maryland when stae wanted to close spawning area to catch and release cca was opposed why because you rather waste a fish for your enjoyment that use it for food or to conserve for the future of the fishery as it is ready to spawn come on george the cca has been exposed to all for us
How about some punctuation in your posts to help us better understand what you're saying? You trying to channel James Joyce's Ulysses Chapter 18?
I got him to propose to me yes first I gave him the bit of seedcake out of my mouth and it was leapyear like now yes 16 years ago my God after that long kiss I near lost my breath yes he said I was a flower of the mountain yes so we are flowers all a womans body yes that was one true thing he said in his life and the sun shines for you today yes that was why I liked him because I saw he understood or felt what a woman is and I knew I could always get round him and I gave him all the pleasure I could leading him on till he asked me to say yes and I wouldnt answer first only looked out over the sea and the sky I was thinking of so many things he didnt know of Mulvey and Mr Stanhope and Hester and father and old captain Groves and the sailors playing all birds fly and I say stoop and washing up dishes they called it on the pier and the sentry in front of the governors house with the thing round his white helmet poor devil half roasted and the Spanish girls laughing in their shawls and their tall combs and the auctions in the morning the Greeks and the jews and the Arabs and the devil knows who else from all the ends of Europe and Duke street and the fowl market all clucking outside Larby Sharons and the poor donkeys slipping half asleep and the vague fellows in the cloaks asleep in the shade on the steps and the big wheels of the carts of the bulls and the old castle thousands of years old yes and those handsome Moors all in white and turbans like kings asking you to sit down in their little bit of a shop and Ronda with the old windows of the posadas 2 glancing eyes a lattice hid for her lover to kiss the iron and the wineshops half open at night and the castanets and the night we missed the boat at Algeciras the watchman going about serene with his lamp and O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets and the pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes
Karen Ann Charters
New Angler
I think it's obvious that since 1984 regulations implemented have failed. The only success has been fueling the ongoing division between commercial and recreational fisherman. By doing so and polarizing this it adds fuel to the fire/debate. If we are truly concerned about the striped bass fishery instead of a divided front anglers on both ends need to address several issues. As an environmentalist it can be said that seldom in nature can anyone pinpoint a specific reason for a species decline. Habitat destruction, climate amelioration, global warming, over harvesting, and a variety of other issues assaulting our environment. It's easy to point the finger at the fisherman. However, others impacting the fishery go unscathed. Without going into great detail let's consider a small piece of the puzzle Jamaica bay. In this treasured resource Jbay there lies pollution plants spewing out chlorine so much so that on any given morning one's nostrils are filled with the odor, golf courses whose run off of nitrogenous fertilizers have a dramatic effect, landfills leaching into the bay, JFK airport with their contaminants and runoff and the population bordering the bay with its additions to the overall health of the bay and surrounding waterways. So in lieu of the fact these entities are big businesses they are not held as accountable as others. A guy surfcasting on a jetty has little money to address let alone combat these issues.
We hear from "those" about studies, data and future stocks but I say to you, and I'll coin a phrase the great coach George Allen said, "The future is now".
Every coveted fish along the coast has several mechanisms in place to enhance the species recovery and hopefully protect their future. An example one should look at the snook fishery in Florida. Intermittent closures throughout the season to protect spawning and overharvesting.
What about a viable, legitimate stocking program. Now once again "they" say it isn't practical, but I disagree. They say that sure we can produce millions of striped bass but when introduced the plankton that young feed on isn't prevalent enough to enable them to survive. Hmm maybe introduce the fish into the environment when they are more mature and have the ability to survive duh!!! We can put a man on the moon but can't figure this out?
In the blockbuster Oppenheimer "they" recruited the brilliant minds we have to solve a need. Is this the case with the striped bass?
Research, socking plants and comprehensive studies cost money. Why aren't industries contributing or better yet required to do so.
IMO rather than juggle numbers and make us divided. the solution is I believe rather simple but not pain free.
Allow the fish to spawn whatever that takes.
Develop a successful stocking program,
Have regulations that are consistent along the coast, that are fair to all.
And George if you are reading this as I'm sure you are here's the gauntlet: you have a decent audience here why not have a meeting were all parties recreational, charters and commercial without "they' and let each express opinions and concerns.
I'll bet that when these groups come together all are intelligent and needn't be divisive.
We hear from "those" about studies, data and future stocks but I say to you, and I'll coin a phrase the great coach George Allen said, "The future is now".
Every coveted fish along the coast has several mechanisms in place to enhance the species recovery and hopefully protect their future. An example one should look at the snook fishery in Florida. Intermittent closures throughout the season to protect spawning and overharvesting.
What about a viable, legitimate stocking program. Now once again "they" say it isn't practical, but I disagree. They say that sure we can produce millions of striped bass but when introduced the plankton that young feed on isn't prevalent enough to enable them to survive. Hmm maybe introduce the fish into the environment when they are more mature and have the ability to survive duh!!! We can put a man on the moon but can't figure this out?
In the blockbuster Oppenheimer "they" recruited the brilliant minds we have to solve a need. Is this the case with the striped bass?
Research, socking plants and comprehensive studies cost money. Why aren't industries contributing or better yet required to do so.
IMO rather than juggle numbers and make us divided. the solution is I believe rather simple but not pain free.
Allow the fish to spawn whatever that takes.
Develop a successful stocking program,
Have regulations that are consistent along the coast, that are fair to all.
And George if you are reading this as I'm sure you are here's the gauntlet: you have a decent audience here why not have a meeting were all parties recreational, charters and commercial without "they' and let each express opinions and concerns.
I'll bet that when these groups come together all are intelligent and needn't be divisive.
Hey Vinnie, I'm currently reading your post, but I've been a bit preoccupied with grouper fishing in South West Florida lately. 
Over the past 35 years, I've gathered extensive knowledge about striped bass. I firmly believe that recreational anglers should have the right to at least one fish species free from indiscriminate commercial netting. This is vital for charter captains like you, who depend on a consistent target each year. While the struggles of commercial fishermen are often highlighted, we shouldn't overlook the needs of tackle shop owners and charter boat operators in New York, who rely on an open fishery for their livelihood.
Consider this, my friend: what happens if the spring bass fishery closes? What alternative will your customers have? Maybe fluke fishing in June? The entire industry hinges on the health of the striped bass fishery.
I've attached a study showing that recreational anglers contribute 9 billion dollars annually and support over 40,000 jobs on the East Coast, with more than 10 million striped bass targeted fishing trips. Now, let's examine the other side.
Why do we persist in targeting bass with draggers and nets, discarding half of them dead, to supply the market, when aquaculture could be a viable alternative? Is this practice maintained just to keep commercial fishermen employed? I believe we're heading towards the end of commercial fishing, which I see as the most wasteful practice today. Think about it: what other wild-caught products do we commonly find in supermarkets? This is largely because wild harvesting is unsustainable.
While I appreciate the idea of a collaborative approach, I'm skeptical that it's feasible. There's a limited number of fish available, and if you don't advocate for your share, as New Jersey has for years, you'll likely miss out.
Over the past 35 years, I've gathered extensive knowledge about striped bass. I firmly believe that recreational anglers should have the right to at least one fish species free from indiscriminate commercial netting. This is vital for charter captains like you, who depend on a consistent target each year. While the struggles of commercial fishermen are often highlighted, we shouldn't overlook the needs of tackle shop owners and charter boat operators in New York, who rely on an open fishery for their livelihood.
Consider this, my friend: what happens if the spring bass fishery closes? What alternative will your customers have? Maybe fluke fishing in June? The entire industry hinges on the health of the striped bass fishery.
I've attached a study showing that recreational anglers contribute 9 billion dollars annually and support over 40,000 jobs on the East Coast, with more than 10 million striped bass targeted fishing trips. Now, let's examine the other side.
Why do we persist in targeting bass with draggers and nets, discarding half of them dead, to supply the market, when aquaculture could be a viable alternative? Is this practice maintained just to keep commercial fishermen employed? I believe we're heading towards the end of commercial fishing, which I see as the most wasteful practice today. Think about it: what other wild-caught products do we commonly find in supermarkets? This is largely because wild harvesting is unsustainable.
While I appreciate the idea of a collaborative approach, I'm skeptical that it's feasible. There's a limited number of fish available, and if you don't advocate for your share, as New Jersey has for years, you'll likely miss out.
Why did they approve a 7% reduction in the commercial catch instead of the 14% reduction taken by recs? How could we approve of that? Think about it. Coms get half the reduction and they are fishing on 26-38-inch fish. Are the fish in trouble or are we starting the transfer to increased commercial harvest? I think it may be time to start another gamefish movement!
Also noted in the minutes is that Chesapeake anglers are already at one 19-inch fish. They will be taking 3 fish to every 1 fish taken on the coast this season. They may take home more fish than you did last year!
'
Glad you wrote as "We". The NY delegation was not in favor of any commercial reduction at all, scoffed at the 14% reduction which would even things out between commercial and recreational, but did agree on substituting the 7% reduction as an amended motion, when it was apparent that there would have to be some pain on the commercial side.
While you're at it in Albany, why not take a shot at getting rid of dragging & gill netting stripers too? If there are any left, I think you can leave pound nets in the mix, as releases there are as good, if not better than hook and line fishing. ASMFC allocates commercial quotas to the states, it's up to the states do with them as they wish. Some states like CT, ME & NH don't do anything with their commercial quotas, including NOT giving them away. NJ tries to use them for a "Bonus Fish", not sure how this coming year's proposal is working out for that.
And that's how it ended. There was motion after motion after substituted motion after substitution ad nauseum, but the bottom line is all recreational bay fishing for 2024 is 1 fish with the same 19-34" slot as was in 2022. The For Hire fleet lost their 2nd fish, so for striped bass, coast wide & Chesapeake bay wide, everyone, shore-based, provide boat-based, and For Hire-based, has the same bag limit, and only slot difference is Ocean vs Chesapeake.
Karen Ann Charters
New Angler
Let me begin by saying everyone has excellent points and all have their merit. I think the one point that hasn't been driven home is IMO a realistic way for the fishery to recover by allowing the fish to spawn. Juggling numbers that are derived from data that isn't solid and hasn't solved the problem for decades is not the solution. More fish spawning increases the number of fish no brainer. As a charter boat owning several boats, I wouldn't be opposed to a flexible season C& R, during peak spawning times. As I stated previously the answers aren't pain free. And if those involved in the fishery are serious about the striped bass well, they have to take the high road and face reality.
I'm not here to pit one group against the other I'm just like you stating my opinion. My research has been done for over 55 years of fishing for striped bass.
Gamefish well that would probably put the nail in the coffin for many charter boats. But on the flip side if they cultivate an audience that enjoys fishing well so be it. Many of my customers aspire to catch and release.
Regarding a meeting of the minds all who have a vested interest in striped bass fishing I think you underestimate the value of a sounding board. So, I would be willing to dedicate time, energy and money to form a coalition that utilizes both energy and funds to fight the battle on several fronts. research, stocking programs, and environmental issues.
You made a point of stating the enormous sums of money recreational fisherman spend. How much is that earmarked to striped bass recovery? If all these manufacturers embrace the fisherman how come their profits don't support the cause. I guess profit and greed drives the machine. I really don't think this is a proper forum to "tackle" the future of striped bass. I think punitive measures fall short and there are better ways to approach this. But my opinion to paraphrase a line from Casablanca doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. God bless America.
I'm not here to pit one group against the other I'm just like you stating my opinion. My research has been done for over 55 years of fishing for striped bass.
Gamefish well that would probably put the nail in the coffin for many charter boats. But on the flip side if they cultivate an audience that enjoys fishing well so be it. Many of my customers aspire to catch and release.
Regarding a meeting of the minds all who have a vested interest in striped bass fishing I think you underestimate the value of a sounding board. So, I would be willing to dedicate time, energy and money to form a coalition that utilizes both energy and funds to fight the battle on several fronts. research, stocking programs, and environmental issues.
You made a point of stating the enormous sums of money recreational fisherman spend. How much is that earmarked to striped bass recovery? If all these manufacturers embrace the fisherman how come their profits don't support the cause. I guess profit and greed drives the machine. I really don't think this is a proper forum to "tackle" the future of striped bass. I think punitive measures fall short and there are better ways to approach this. But my opinion to paraphrase a line from Casablanca doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. God bless America.
New Jersey has gamefish status now and they're doing just fine. Gamefish only means that it can't be caught for commercial sale. It removes the price tag. Also, a spring shutdown would mean NO recreational fishing - including catch and release, during the spawn. Remember, ASMFC records show that recreational anglers kill millions of released striped bass.
Sadly the system makes it inherant to fight for your piece of the pie.
Karen Ann Charters
New Angler
So you're against catch and release? And who says what they say is gospel. Because there's plenty of fish that have flexible seasons. George they really don't have numbers on mortality. And when asked to the director of the DEC how many striped bass are in the ocean well as said earlier, they don't know. George look across the board on here, social media and websites. Many without going into names my boats included boast of epic I think the word used most often epic striper fishing today. Over 80 plus fish, hmm makes you think. So in essence all involved commercial, sporties, charters are decimating the fishery that's what you said with no repercussions. Hey George in probably 5 years or so most commercial striper fishermen will be too old or dead that being the light at the end of the tunnel. Who will they blame then?
A little knowledge is dangerous. Why wait for gamefish status? I'm a charter boat owner/operator. Of the hundreds of times, I fish a year charter or with friends 99% are fishing for striped bass. I fished Connecticut several times last week, slots all released, they looked pretty good to me swimming away. On any given day there's plenty of fisherman along the river. Fishing and catching stripers I've never seen one kept. George I 've met you and consider you a gentleman but you're good at stoking the flames between the commercial and charter fisherman. That really doesn't accomplish much except make for banter between all. Rather than tear down I say build up. Here's my cell 516 7286952 I'm willing to host a forum . discuss options for all and see who is willing to fund these solutions. I've had several commercial fisherman who want to assist in putting "they" in check and be all inclusive once again to all the problems plaguing the stripers. Without going into attack made let all resolve to helping this great resource.
A little knowledge is dangerous. Why wait for gamefish status? I'm a charter boat owner/operator. Of the hundreds of times, I fish a year charter or with friends 99% are fishing for striped bass. I fished Connecticut several times last week, slots all released, they looked pretty good to me swimming away. On any given day there's plenty of fisherman along the river. Fishing and catching stripers I've never seen one kept. George I 've met you and consider you a gentleman but you're good at stoking the flames between the commercial and charter fisherman. That really doesn't accomplish much except make for banter between all. Rather than tear down I say build up. Here's my cell 516 7286952 I'm willing to host a forum . discuss options for all and see who is willing to fund these solutions. I've had several commercial fisherman who want to assist in putting "they" in check and be all inclusive once again to all the problems plaguing the stripers. Without going into attack made let all resolve to helping this great resource.
hawk375
New Angler
of the 40,000 jobs how many are freshwater fishing that pay and stock? saltwater dont want to pay, want everything for nothing but want it all for themselves.all i know fact look at old newspapers, fisherman magazines and see how strong recreational fishery was before people like you took over catch and release doesn't work for fluke, flounder, seabass and porgy
After the first time I tried to read your post I decided to just skip them. Granted, I can put an individual in "Ignore," but I keep hoping that your child or wife will "redmark" and correct, lol. I do want to read what you post, but it is simply not worth the effort deciphering.
Yet I followed this, lol.
captmike28
Well-Known Angler
As I have stated many times in the past, I am not a fisheries biologist and do not claim to have the correct solutions for restoring many of our most popular species that seem to be experiencing a decline in numbers. However, I have been fishing on the North Fork for over 60 years and been running a successful Charter operation for over 20 years. In addition, I believe I have pretty good powers of observation and the ability to understand what attracts so many people to the sport of fishing. Add to all of that is the fact that when I am not chartered, I am also a very avid recreational fisherman myself.
Based upon all the factors I have mentioned above I would find it very difficult to support a strictly C&R fishery for Striped Bass or any other popular species we all pursue. I fully understand the need to cut back, and “feel some pain” from time to time. During my years on the water, I have faithfully followed all the regulations put in place, in an attempt to return fish populations to levels that are sustainable on many levels. But, completely eliminating the possession of even one fish for personal consumption overlooks a very key aspect to fishing.
When I take anyone fishing, experts or newcomers, children or adults, one of the key aspects of the day is to help people enjoy and appreciate the overall experience of fishing. Aside from the beautiful scenery, closeness to nature, and the comradery that is present is the phycological factor of the reward of a fresh fish dinner at the conclusion of the day. Personally, myself and all my family members simply love to eat fresh fish. Regardless of whether you are a recreational angler or use the For-Hire industry to make your catch, fish that is harvested in small numbers and properly cared for virtually always taste better than anything you can buy in a seafood market.
In addition to the outstanding taste of a freshly caught fish is the psychological satisfaction one enjoys by having invested their time, effort, and skill to bring that wonderful dinner to the table. The analogy I would make here is one of a master craftsman who builds beautiful furniture but never keeps a single piece to enjoy themselves. Somehow the activity has not come “full circle” unless you get to enjoy the reward at the end.
My other observation is that of a financial matter, not just for my own Charter business or others in the For-Hire industry but also the patrons. While there are a certain number of people who are indeed wealthy enough to charter a boat just to play C&R, I firmly believe most of our customers are hardworking “grass roots” kind of people. Yes, fishing does appeal to them too on a “pure sportsman’s” level, but they also need to justify, to a certain extent, the cost of going out for a day and coming back with that fantastic dinner as a reward. The folks who can afford to play C&R full time are also quite capable of dining in their favorite 5-star restaurant for that “fresh fish dinner” almost any time they please. Not so much the case for the grass roots guys trying to stretch their family budget as much as possible.
So, while I will always do my best to conserve the valuable resources the ocean has to share with us all, I cannot see any path forward that requires the recreational angler to forfeit their hard earned and somewhat expensive prize!
Hunter704
Well-Known Angler
Well said Capt. Mike
I'm not sure why you think I'm against catch and release (C&R); it's practically all we do now when fishing for bass. The ASMFC isn't a fan, arguing that it leads to the death of millions of pounds of fish annually. We both aim for the same outcome, but without advocates, we risk losing access to the fishery entirely. Had we not fought for our rights in the early '90s, we'd be limited to a much smaller share of the catch. Nowadays, recreational anglers account for 90% of the catch, and it's become nearly impossible to take a fish home.
You seem to underestimate the number of people who appreciate taking a fish home. The demand is there; otherwise, party boats targeting bass would lose their business.
Vinnie, you're in a special position with a clientele that prefers C&R. However, if the ASMFC closes a fishery, that's it—you can't fish there, leaving you with limited options during that season.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to provoke anyone. I'm merely highlighting significant concerns that have been raised at high levels. We're not safe yet; the upcoming spring assessment will be critical, and a total shutdown wouldn't be surprising.
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