tides question, Great South Bay

[pequa1]

not sure how to word this but will try. When I docked in Lindenhurst in the 70s I used to look at tide charts for the two inlets but primarily Fire Is. Usually went to Snakehill so I looked up Fire Is Inlet tides. When I moved the boat in the 80s to Amityville I switched to fishing West Island and Sloop Channel so would look up Jones Inlet tides and continued to do so when I started trailering out of Massapequa in 97 or so. Now I just kayak locally and look up Amityville high tide times, but I know the incoming continues to flow through 'Pequa beyond that time. (Yes, I know the charts all say times approximate!) BUT WHERE ALONG THE SOUTH SHORE (BACKBAY) DOES ONE SEE THE "end" ? Bergen Point ? or is Bergen Pt only impacted by Fire Island Inlet tide ? Tanner Park, Copaigue ?

 

[Crabman]

All approximate. We fish current. When we have high "tide" at Babylon Village, the "current" begins to go out at Fire Island Inlet. Approximately 45 minutes later, the current begins going out at the Coast Guard Station (Moses Bridge). Approximately, 1 hour and change after Babylon high tide, the current begins going out in West Channel and Snake Hill. An hour and a half, current begins going out at Frank & Dicks. This works for me. I use Babylon high tide for all my calculations. It also gives me the tide status for treading clams on the south side of the bay.

 

[pequa1]

All approximate. We fish current. When we have high "tide" at Babylon Village, the "current" begins to go out at Fire Island Inlet. Approximately 45 minutes later, the current begins going out at the Coast Guard Station (Moses Bridge). Approximately, 1 hour and change after Babylon high tide, the current begins going out in West Channel and Snake Hill. An hour and a half, current begins going out at Frank & Dicks. This works for me. I use Babylon high tide for all my calculations. It also gives me the tide status for treading clams on the south side of the bay.

So I can infer that Jones Inlet tides and current do not impact Babylon. Yet Jones Inlet tides and current do impact Amityille and not tides and current from Fire Island Inlet. somewhere in the middle must be the answer to my query.

 

[captmike28]

So I can infer that Jones Inlet tides and current do not impact Babylon. Yet Jones Inlet tides and current do impact Amityille and not tides and current from Fire Island Inlet. somewhere in the middle must be the answer to my query.

Those who know me well or have heard me present on this topic understand I am a big proponent of the Eldridge Tide Pilot book. Of all the available sources of printed tide and current information I have always found its data to be the most accurate.

Having said that there is still no substitute for local knowledge and your own keen powers of observation to make the necessary adjustments in a specific area. There are locations in the Peconics I fish where regardless of the stage of the tide, current flow, and breeze, the drift always seems to take my boat in the exact opposite direction of what you would think. Eddy's caused by certain land formations, channels, etc. can set up their own distinct patterns that defy published data. The learning never stops if you pay attention.

Crabman's excellent comments are a true testimonial to that!

 

[Roccus7]

Those who know me well or have heard me present on this topic understand I am a big proponent of the Eldridge Tide Pilot book. Of all the available sources of printed tide and current information I have always found its data to be the most accurate.

Having said that there is still no substitute for local knowledge and your own keen powers of observation to make the necessary adjustments in a specific area. There are locations in the Peconics I fish where regardless of the stage of the tide, current flow, and breeze, the drift always seems to take my boat in the exact opposite direction of what you would think. Eddy's caused by certain land formations, channels, etc. can set up their own distinct patterns that defy published data. The learning never stops if you pay attention.

Crabman's excellent comments are a true testimonial to that!

^^^^^^ Like he said, there are NO substitutes for local knowledge. Ask any competing sailboats for the early 80s Round Long Island Sailboat Race who were fighting a raging ebb tide in the Sound off of Petty's Bight, watching in rage another boat close to the shore seemingly with its engine on!!

Years of fishing there helped me learn that about 1 hour into the ebb, there was an east flowing back eddy in the bight, and sailboat owners loved to have a fisherman on board. That back eddy is not in Eldridge...

 

[pequa1]

Enjoying all the comments but where along the town of Babylon is "the spot" that is more influenced by the current and tide of one inlet over the other inlet?

 

[captmike28]

Enjoying all the comments but where along the town of Babylon is "the spot" that is more influenced by the current and tide of one inlet over the other inlet?

Sorry I cannot be of more help in your specific area, Pequa. I have very limited local knowledge of the area where you fish.

Sounds like you need to have a more in-depth conversation with Crabman.

 

[pequa1]

Sorry I cannot be of more help in your specific area, Pequa. I have very limited local knowledge of the area where you fish.

Sounds like you need to have a more in-depth conversation with Crabman.

True, but it sound like he avoids nearing Queens East (Nassau), lol.

 

[Crabman]

So I can infer that Jones Inlet tides and current do not impact Babylon. Yet Jones Inlet tides and current do impact Amityille and not tides and current from Fire Island Inlet. somewhere in the middle must be the answer to my query.

Pequa, I'm sorry for my late response. I spend a lot of time in the water or on my boat with underwater lights. I use current for water clarity. It is my opinion, the change point for Jones Inlet "current" and Fire Island Inlet "current" is between the Lindenhurst Cut and Babylon Cut. West of Lindenhurst Cut the out going current goes west to Jones Inlet. East of Babylon Cut the out going current goes east to Fire Island Inlet. Between the two is a separation zone and wind or moon might have an effect during certain days. (Jones Inlet can handle more water) But Pequa1, you are correct as far as I am concerned, Jones Inlet current has no effect on Babylon but does at Amityville. For me, I'm most interested in the Babylon areas and to the east. The Babylon High Tide time is my basis for all my calculation for fishing the Fire Island Inlet to Frank and Dick's or Ocean Beach areas. I re-read my above post. It might sound confusing but it isn't, it's just hard to explain. If you fish to the west, you could do your own calculations off Amityville High Tide. While you are sitting in Jones Inlet at the slack, once you notice the current is going out, look at the Amityville High Tide Table and note the time (or whatever tide spot you want to use). As you move back into the bay, the time will get later for the current to start going out. Pick a few spots that are easy to remember at 30 minutes, 45 minutes, 1 hour and interpolate between if you need it balls on (which you won't). For me, I know Babylon High Tide is the approximate time for the current to begin to go out at Fire Island Inlet. I work everything back from there.

 

[pequa1]

That was exactly what i was looking for, including how to figure when the current would continue to move and for how long at a certain point. Thank you

 

[Crabman]

I'm happy if it helps. It's confusing. Just take a day and start your fishing as the out going tide at Jones Inlet starts. Find a high tide table that is the same time as the out going current and use that table. I have a great app on my phone, Tides Near Me. I just looked, the Babylon High Tide is within nine minutes as Amityville High Tide. That has no relationship to when the current begins to go out at Jones. You will just have to see. The time has to do with distance from the inlet. I'm lucky that I'm in Babylon. The Babylon High Tide just happens to be the right distance from the inlet for the current to begin going out. So, the calculations are easy.

 

[pequa1]

I use Tides Near Me also. I need to see if I can find a “spot” in lindenhurst to see the difference from amityville to try to determine how much longer an incoming will flow past a massapequa location at “high tide”

 

[Crabman]

Let us know what you find and figure out.

 

[george]

@Crabman You sure are a wealth of information!

 

[pequa1]

Too hot and windy for me for kayakfishing so I thought I would "play" with this. What a disaster. NOAA, Tides for Me and Tideschart,com not only have different times, but one, Tidecharts, lists the same high tide times for Massapequa, Amityville, and Copaigue! Lindenhurst is an hour different so maybe that is using Fire Island Inlet ?? Of course the geographic location of the tide "stations" matters, and one system uses a spot for a station a mile up a canal in Matzohpizza, right off Merrick Road, for the "Biltmore Shores, Massapequa" station. I only got interested in this when trying to figure how far to drift with one tide, and return after slack to go back. When one kayakfishes in one's mid 70s, constant paddling against the current to keep returning to a "good spot" gets old. (so...when the bite stinks, long drifts.)

 

[Crabman]

@Crabman You sure are a wealth of information!

That's kind of you George. I think NY Angler has all types of unique information being shared by a great group of talented guys. It's probably one of the most respectful peer to peer sites I have been involved with. From you as the Administrator, the moderators, the members and the talent like Lep, Capt. Mike and many others, all of us are comfortable to share our opinions and if needed reach out for help. We should all be proud of ourselves for keeping this forum an enjoyable site to be involved with.

 

[Crabman]

Pequa1, I stick to one table app and just work off that one. Tides Near Me. I don't think it matters which inlet. (I could be wrong). Tides Near Me does not seem to have a Lindenhurst tide station. Are you sure you are looking at Lindenhurst, NY? The high tide of all your mentioned locations should be within minutes of each other.

 

[pequa1]

No, it was tideschart.com that had Lindenhurst. I agree, I will just use Tides Near Me and add another fifteen minutes or so for the Copaigue Hole or maybe Tanner Park. That way, I should be able to figure just how long I will be in Massapequa waters before the current goes slack, and I can start drifting the other way.