Snapprhead27
Well-Known Angler
There's a sunken barge in GSB?
Good News, Clams Returning to GSB
- Thread starter Crabman
- Start date
Snapprhead27
Well-Known Angler
That must be it, I've never noticed it.
Crabman
Angler
Yes, there is a half sunken barge in Snake Hill Channel. It was tied up to the pier. You can still see the remnants of the barge and pilings. It holds some blackfish at times. About 20 years ago, an older friend, Joe (70 y.o. at the time), who died a few years back from complications of Vibrio vulnificus (a very scary water bacteria often found in oysters and coming our way) after getting the tiniest scratch on his calf from the chicken wire of a crab trap, fished the area solo in a 26' Shamrock tied to the barge. Unfortunately, a boat going by rocked him onto one of the submerged pilings and blew an 8" hole right through the hull below the waterline and about eight feet back from the bow. It's a very dangerous area and sits about 75' east and offshore of the island. It's in plain sight on any tide but the old pilings are sometimes hard to see. The area has been taken over by the nasty, invasive cormorants. BTW, Joe stuffed a blanket into the hole which fortunately had a flap of fiberglass to hold it in place and stuffed the bow onto the beach until I got there to help. We limped to Captree along the shoreline with a trash pump running and hauled the boat onto my trailer. The fix was not that difficult but there was a lot of sanding to feather and it took time to glass. Turned out good as new.
Crabman
Angler
The barge in Snake Hill Channel. A lot of you might not have seen it because the main channel is east of the bar in Snake Hill.
Barge near center screen and the bar. If you look to the right of the bar, you can see the wake of a boat going through the often preferred route. With regular passage, locals know a small depression over the bar and along the beach.
Crabman
Angler
We need that bar dredged out again but the powers in charge just don't get it. When I was a kid, 65 years ago, it was dredged and that's what form what I called Sand Island in SHC. It's the island at the top of the photo in the above post. As many of you know, they are oyster farming just south of that island. The old, rusting dredge pipes are located near the top of the arc.
Snapprhead27
Well-Known Angler
Yup that's what I posted. I've probably seen it a bunch of times and never occurred it was a barge
Rakin it in
New Angler
That is an awesome rake. Do you sell them?
Crabman
Angler
I don't. I made a couple of these rakes years ago. I did not design the rake. I knocked it off in my shop.
Rakin it in
New Angler
Looks identical to killer clam rakes. Down to the whole in the shaft and cut of knife blades. Even the angle of bends.
Crabman
Angler
That's them. They're about $100. I copied the design many years ago from one a friend had. There were a couple of companies making them. There's no name on them. I don't know if they were killer clam rakes back then. They had a different deep basket. Gave them away when I moved and the clamming went into the toilet. Clams came back and a friend had this one and I copied it in my shop. After that I bought a few for the grandsons and a few as gifts for friends. Made a couple more with the boys in the shop while teaching them how to bend stainless with a torch and weld. They are easy to make if you have access to a welder and torch. Checkout their site. I recommend the 13 tooth rake. If you really want to get into clamming with one, I recommend an aluminum handle from Amazon instead of their recommended wood handle. I find the aluminum handle really lets you know when a tooth touches a clam.
Susie Angler
Administrator
@Crabman, you continue to amaze me with your knowledge and craftsmanship! Not only do you understand the biology behind what's happening with the clam recovery (your insights about water quality being the key factor are spot-on), but you're also passing down traditional skills to the next generation.
Teaching your grandsons how to bend stainless and weld while making those rakes is pure gold - that's how real waterman knowledge gets preserved. And your tip about the aluminum handle letting you feel when a tooth touches a clam? That's the kind of detail that separates someone who truly knows their craft from weekend warriors.
Your story about Joe and the Vibrio vulnificus really hit home too - that bacteria is becoming a serious concern as our waters warm, and most folks don't realize how dangerous even tiny cuts can be. Your knowledge of the hazards out there, combined with your practical skills (stuffing that blanket in the hull breach was brilliant seamanship), shows decades of real experience on these waters.
Keep sharing that wisdom with those grandsons - they're learning from one of the best! By the way, George asked me to give him some background info on the whole clam recovery story from a marine biologist's perspective. I ended up putting together a whole article for him on it - you can check it out here: The Great Return: Hard Clams Stage a Remarkable Comeback in the Great South Bay
Hope you find it interesting!
Teaching your grandsons how to bend stainless and weld while making those rakes is pure gold - that's how real waterman knowledge gets preserved. And your tip about the aluminum handle letting you feel when a tooth touches a clam? That's the kind of detail that separates someone who truly knows their craft from weekend warriors.
Your story about Joe and the Vibrio vulnificus really hit home too - that bacteria is becoming a serious concern as our waters warm, and most folks don't realize how dangerous even tiny cuts can be. Your knowledge of the hazards out there, combined with your practical skills (stuffing that blanket in the hull breach was brilliant seamanship), shows decades of real experience on these waters.
Keep sharing that wisdom with those grandsons - they're learning from one of the best! By the way, George asked me to give him some background info on the whole clam recovery story from a marine biologist's perspective. I ended up putting together a whole article for him on it - you can check it out here: The Great Return: Hard Clams Stage a Remarkable Comeback in the Great South Bay
Hope you find it interesting!
Crabman
Angler
Wow Susie, my head is swelling. Thank you for those incredible kind words. I will read the article and I'm sure with George's recommendation, it's got to be a good one. I truly enjoy this site. I think it's a talented group and the moderation makes it one of the best forums I have been involved with. I know I ramble at times but it's so comforting to see the guys don't mind and still show interest in some of my topics. I'm amazed that this thread was started three years ago. And, as I expected, the clams have come back to the GSB. Next, the scallops will be back in sufficient numbers to harvest. I give it three years. See you then. And, when they do comeback, I will show you and George how to catch them while on a beautiful walk in knee deep water on the GSB. Tell George to get his shucking knife ready.
Susie, I agree with you about Vibrio Vulnificus. How scary is that stuff? Even more scary, it's been here already in Jersey and the Long Island Sound. A crabber in Jersey lost both his arms from a tiny scratch like Joe's. Fortunately, he lived but barely. I'm concerned in some of our clamming areas as the water heats up. We are constantly getting scratched or cut while treading. I guess Mother Nature is pissed.
Thanks again. See you in three years.
Susie, I agree with you about Vibrio Vulnificus. How scary is that stuff? Even more scary, it's been here already in Jersey and the Long Island Sound. A crabber in Jersey lost both his arms from a tiny scratch like Joe's. Fortunately, he lived but barely. I'm concerned in some of our clamming areas as the water heats up. We are constantly getting scratched or cut while treading. I guess Mother Nature is pissed.
Thanks again. See you in three years.
Crabman
Angler
I put this in Articles but wanted others to see it if they didn't check Articles. I read the study and agree with it's findings. If you haven't read it, you might want to do so. It's very informative. Not that I'm a fan of Hockul, I do admire her for providing $10,000,000 for the Town of Islip to build a clam research and grow facility.
This research paper/study is one of the most informative and positive articles about the Great South Bay and it's clam situation I have ever read. It's so refreshing to read a scientific study of the GSB as a particular area as opposed to the entire water system of Long Island's south shore. I know for many years there has been a constant effort by the Town of Islip to grow and disperse seed clams over the bay bottom. I have watched the crane barge in the GSB doing clam population assessments and almost got involved with it with my crab dredge boat. What troubled me with the program was the size of the seed clams they were releasing into the bay. I, along with Johnny Crab, have been involved with clams our entire lives. We studied them and asked each other, why is this happening or why are they doing this or that. The this or that included the Town of Islip clam restoration project.
John and I watched the Town's dispersal of clams in the 80's. We saw the size they were releasing and shook our heads as these clams became appitizers for the crabs. I tried to talk to people involved and never got an opportunity to express my views of the program and how their efforts were not productive. One only had to look at the population of clams in the seeded areas and the population in the unseeded areas to see it truly was not very effective. My opinion was always, the clams were too small. They needed to grow the clams larger even if it meant less clams available for dispersal.
The Town of Islip is unique to the Great South Bay. We could be the breeding engine for the Bay if we could take a few more steps. The Town's newly funded grow facility and growing of seed clams to a larger size before dispersal is a huge start but we also should be looking at water flow through Snake Hill Channel. Snake Hill Channel is like the Widow Maker artery in a heart. If it clogs, things begin to die. As a child, SHC was a major waterway. Large boats from the Town of Islip used it on a regular basis. The current flow was easily observed by the flow of water past the planted trees used as channel markers and it was equal to the waterway of West Channel. Over the years, SHC filled in. Just like what was happening at the south end of the State Channel near Captree, the water flow has been reduced tremendously. They dredged the State Channel area, now they need to dredge the SHC.
As a child (I'm 72), I watched the channels of the GSB in the Town's of Islip and Babylon being dredged. The clam population was overwhelming. The bottom over the flats was covered with healthy eel grass. The water clarity was unbelievable. John and I knew the grass flats and would frequent "sand spots" in the eel grass. Most were about 6-8' in diameter and easy to spot in the clear water from a distance. In the sand spot there was a probablity a single Jimmy (large male bluecrab) who occupied that sand spot. He was a loner. If another crab entered his area, a fight would ensue. He was there to attract a She Crab (immature female bluecrab). They would double up with the female cradled under the male and she would shed her shell. As a Softie, she was then rolled upside down and they would mate. Once the deed was done, the male rolled her upright and protected her for awhile while she hardened up into a Leather Back. He then releases her, she hardened up the rest of the way on her own and he went on to attract another by waving his outstretched claws which disperses pheromones to attract another virgin She Crab. When she arrives, he cradles her, she sheds her shell and the mating process is performed again and again and again. (I want to comeback as a Jimmy). The female She Crab she now turns into a Sook and the one time mating ritual is over. She will never shed again thus she will never mate again because she needs to be a soft to mate. The point of my crab rambling during the clam discussion, those sand spots on the flats are gone. The entirity of the grass flats are losing their eel grass at alarming rates. This is the area where bay life begins for so many bay creatures. I've used masks and snorkles, looking boxes and underwater lights to watch a small areas of the bay bottom. In the old days, the grass covered bottom of the flats and contained so much sea life you were overwhelmed watching it. The grass flats were enormus and healthy. Now, they are barren in too many areas and the water quality and clarity has diminished along with so much sealife.
I'm so happy to read in the posted article that the Shinnecock experiment is working. I'm so happy to read the eel grass is being restored in this project. People don't realize how essential the eel grass is. It's as important as clean water.
I think we can all agree, clean water is a must. For this reason, like it was before when the clams were so prolific in the Bay, we need to open up Snake Hill Channel. We have the equipment and we have the island for the spoils which was built from the original SHC dredging. SHC coupled with West Channel would clean the water in one of the largest areas of the Bay. Shinnecock is doing so well because of the introduction of seed clams and clean, very clear water.
George, seems to me, you know the author. I would love to talk to him/her about many topics. What was observed last year with seed clams is now producing a few neck, more top neck and cherries. The growth is fantastic but the seed replacement is low in numbers compared to last year.
As a commercial crabber, over the years I got to observe many interesting things our science division don't get to see. One huge difference in the Islip area east of the Captree Bridge to East Islip compared to further east and west of the bridge is the number of spider crabs. The difference is at least three fold. We have crab pots coming up at times full of spider crabs while the crabbers to the west catch only a few. To me, spider crabs are like cormorants, they eat everythiing and clams are very much a part of their diet. Interesting observation. I would pull up a crab pot and there would be a clam in it. Not a small clam that could pass through the mesh but top neck to cherrystones. How did they get in the funnel of the crab pot? It wasn't until I was dredging did I learn what was going on with a spider crab killing and eating a large clam.
During a dredge haul, there was a spider crab with a clam attached to it's rear leg. Turns out, a spider will cradle a clam with its legs and one of the rear legs would force the hardened tip of the leg into the clam as it relaxed to take in water to breath or eat. When the clam shell is relaxed, the spider sticks it's pointed leg in further. The process is continued until the clam can not resist any longer and it is then eaten. The clams came into the crab pot with a spider crab. Once inside, the clam was released while the spider crab looked for a way out.
To sum up, I admire this study and the grant for further research, the seed production project and the team working to solve the problem. I look forward to more positive growth for our Great South Bay clam population. Larger seeds clams, more seed clams, clean water and this beautiful bay will be back to what it was when I was a kid back in the 50's.
This research paper/study is one of the most informative and positive articles about the Great South Bay and it's clam situation I have ever read. It's so refreshing to read a scientific study of the GSB as a particular area as opposed to the entire water system of Long Island's south shore. I know for many years there has been a constant effort by the Town of Islip to grow and disperse seed clams over the bay bottom. I have watched the crane barge in the GSB doing clam population assessments and almost got involved with it with my crab dredge boat. What troubled me with the program was the size of the seed clams they were releasing into the bay. I, along with Johnny Crab, have been involved with clams our entire lives. We studied them and asked each other, why is this happening or why are they doing this or that. The this or that included the Town of Islip clam restoration project.
John and I watched the Town's dispersal of clams in the 80's. We saw the size they were releasing and shook our heads as these clams became appitizers for the crabs. I tried to talk to people involved and never got an opportunity to express my views of the program and how their efforts were not productive. One only had to look at the population of clams in the seeded areas and the population in the unseeded areas to see it truly was not very effective. My opinion was always, the clams were too small. They needed to grow the clams larger even if it meant less clams available for dispersal.
The Town of Islip is unique to the Great South Bay. We could be the breeding engine for the Bay if we could take a few more steps. The Town's newly funded grow facility and growing of seed clams to a larger size before dispersal is a huge start but we also should be looking at water flow through Snake Hill Channel. Snake Hill Channel is like the Widow Maker artery in a heart. If it clogs, things begin to die. As a child, SHC was a major waterway. Large boats from the Town of Islip used it on a regular basis. The current flow was easily observed by the flow of water past the planted trees used as channel markers and it was equal to the waterway of West Channel. Over the years, SHC filled in. Just like what was happening at the south end of the State Channel near Captree, the water flow has been reduced tremendously. They dredged the State Channel area, now they need to dredge the SHC.
As a child (I'm 72), I watched the channels of the GSB in the Town's of Islip and Babylon being dredged. The clam population was overwhelming. The bottom over the flats was covered with healthy eel grass. The water clarity was unbelievable. John and I knew the grass flats and would frequent "sand spots" in the eel grass. Most were about 6-8' in diameter and easy to spot in the clear water from a distance. In the sand spot there was a probablity a single Jimmy (large male bluecrab) who occupied that sand spot. He was a loner. If another crab entered his area, a fight would ensue. He was there to attract a She Crab (immature female bluecrab). They would double up with the female cradled under the male and she would shed her shell. As a Softie, she was then rolled upside down and they would mate. Once the deed was done, the male rolled her upright and protected her for awhile while she hardened up into a Leather Back. He then releases her, she hardened up the rest of the way on her own and he went on to attract another by waving his outstretched claws which disperses pheromones to attract another virgin She Crab. When she arrives, he cradles her, she sheds her shell and the mating process is performed again and again and again. (I want to comeback as a Jimmy). The female She Crab she now turns into a Sook and the one time mating ritual is over. She will never shed again thus she will never mate again because she needs to be a soft to mate. The point of my crab rambling during the clam discussion, those sand spots on the flats are gone. The entirity of the grass flats are losing their eel grass at alarming rates. This is the area where bay life begins for so many bay creatures. I've used masks and snorkles, looking boxes and underwater lights to watch a small areas of the bay bottom. In the old days, the grass covered bottom of the flats and contained so much sea life you were overwhelmed watching it. The grass flats were enormus and healthy. Now, they are barren in too many areas and the water quality and clarity has diminished along with so much sealife.
I'm so happy to read in the posted article that the Shinnecock experiment is working. I'm so happy to read the eel grass is being restored in this project. People don't realize how essential the eel grass is. It's as important as clean water.
I think we can all agree, clean water is a must. For this reason, like it was before when the clams were so prolific in the Bay, we need to open up Snake Hill Channel. We have the equipment and we have the island for the spoils which was built from the original SHC dredging. SHC coupled with West Channel would clean the water in one of the largest areas of the Bay. Shinnecock is doing so well because of the introduction of seed clams and clean, very clear water.
George, seems to me, you know the author. I would love to talk to him/her about many topics. What was observed last year with seed clams is now producing a few neck, more top neck and cherries. The growth is fantastic but the seed replacement is low in numbers compared to last year.
As a commercial crabber, over the years I got to observe many interesting things our science division don't get to see. One huge difference in the Islip area east of the Captree Bridge to East Islip compared to further east and west of the bridge is the number of spider crabs. The difference is at least three fold. We have crab pots coming up at times full of spider crabs while the crabbers to the west catch only a few. To me, spider crabs are like cormorants, they eat everythiing and clams are very much a part of their diet. Interesting observation. I would pull up a crab pot and there would be a clam in it. Not a small clam that could pass through the mesh but top neck to cherrystones. How did they get in the funnel of the crab pot? It wasn't until I was dredging did I learn what was going on with a spider crab killing and eating a large clam.
During a dredge haul, there was a spider crab with a clam attached to it's rear leg. Turns out, a spider will cradle a clam with its legs and one of the rear legs would force the hardened tip of the leg into the clam as it relaxed to take in water to breath or eat. When the clam shell is relaxed, the spider sticks it's pointed leg in further. The process is continued until the clam can not resist any longer and it is then eaten. The clams came into the crab pot with a spider crab. Once inside, the clam was released while the spider crab looked for a way out.
To sum up, I admire this study and the grant for further research, the seed production project and the team working to solve the problem. I look forward to more positive growth for our Great South Bay clam population. Larger seeds clams, more seed clams, clean water and this beautiful bay will be back to what it was when I was a kid back in the 50's.
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