Switch Panel Problem

[Roccus7]

Learned Colleagues:

I think I've got this sussed out but sure could use a second opinion or 5 here. The other day I noticed that if I switched on my running lights, the power coming out of my switch panel was OUT, nothing was working or the voltage of the other switches was reduced as evidenced by their "On" lights being barely visible. I went through all the switches and the only "Bad Player" was the NAV Lite switch. This confused the hell out of me, since I kept locking up on HTF one funky switch would impact the output of other circuits on the entire panel??

To further flummox my logic, I had a blown-out starboard running light bulb during this "event". After I replaced the bulb, the problem persisted, BUT after turning the switch and off a few times with a heavy hand, it worked. Therefore I reasoned that the blown out bulb was just coincidental to the switch problem, which was probably a dirty switch.

Now we've had a ton of driving rain lately, so I'm also thinking that some water may have been forced into that particular switch so I took grabbed the can of WD-40, WD as in Water Displacement, and shot some into the NAV Lite switch and all seems well.

So Doctor, please peruse these items and let me know all of my incorrect assumptions, as well as answering any questions I have. Thanks in advance.

1. How exactly does a single dirty or malfunctioning switch on a switch panel stop or reduce the voltage output of the rest of the panel when this event does not trip any breaker or blow any fuses?
   
   
2. Is a shot of WD40 the proper way to clean an erratic switch on a switch panel or is there something else to use?
   
   
3. Is there something else my feeble mind is not comprehending that could be the cause of this problem?

Thanks,
R7

 

[Capt13]

1. The bad connection in the switch probably created heat drawing a lot more amperage. Enough to dim the other panel lights but not enough to blow a fuse. Check the fuse and make sure it's not like 15 or 20 amps.

2. Forget the wd 40. There is something else I would use. A new switch.

3. I think you have it right. The blown bulb was probably a coincidence.

 

[TonySmjc]

I agree with capt 13

but I’ll toss in


dim lights on the entire panel generally make me look for a grounding issue
Not uncommon to find these two things hand in hand

 

[Roccus7]

1. The bad connection in the switch probably created heat drawing a lot more amperage. Enough to dim the other panel lights but not enough to blow a fuse. Check the fuse and make sure it's not like 15 or 20 amps.

2. Forget the wd 40. There is something else I would use. A new switch.

3. I think you have it right. The blown bulb was probably a coincidence.

I agree with capt 13

but I’ll toss in


dim lights on the entire panel generally make me look for a grounding issue
Not uncommon to find these two things hand in hand

Well, the damn thing went FUBAR on my this morning 15 miles offshore, I was fishing with radio, GPS/Sounder/Radar working and suddenly, NOTHING. I played with all the switches and had a moment of "It's working," but that was only a moment and then it was all NG.

Well fishing wasn't the best and I was afraid the "disease" could spread to the engine so I fired her up to head home. As I came around the Island I was fishing, I was so thrilled to find the coastline newly socked in. Uggghhhhhhhhh. Did some decent dead reckoning with a few glitches and just as I found the marker I was looking for, the fog curtain totally lifted. Should have kept fishing...

Will check grounds, thanks Tony. Of course I read that after I ordered a replacement panel, but WTH, never hurts to have inventory. Now that all the switches seem to be effected, I'm thinking that it could be the potential here, but still wondering because the "RED LIGHTs" are on across the panel when none of the switches are "On". When I flip the one empty switch to "ON" it has a green light, but it goes dark when the other switches are thrown, even when I disconnect the wires from "other" switches.

Regardles, it "couldn't hoit" so I've off to the boat. I spent all the trouble shooting time this AM to the Pos end of business. Time to look at the other end of the goose, I've got time for the new switch to arrive and would be perfectly happy letting it sit in its box...

 

[TonySmjc]

I though about this last night and something didn’t seam right about the red light even being on a 12 v panel not being a electrical wizard


I looked at some of my panels

none of the ones I have at 12v has red and green lights

green yes that indicates on

the only Panels I have that utilize red and green are 110v
Same green indicator for on
But the red indicator shows reverse polarity

do you have a picture of the panel?

 

[Capt13]

If you can get to the wires, pull the wires off the offending switch and see if that makes a difference. Corrosion in the switch could have also created a slight short in the lighted portion of the switch circuits. Looking forward to finding out what's causing the problems !!

 

[Roccus7]

Thanks @TonySmjc & @Capt13. The "Clot Thickens".

It's a Weather Deck Blue Seas 8 switch Waterproof Switch Panel, 4309

Here's the pic:

I ran down to the boat before, after I read about the possible impact on the negative side. Looked at the Negative Bus and there was a tiny bit of corrosion by the main lead to the battery. Took it off, cleaned it and screwed it back in. Went topside and WOW everything's working!! Left things running while I was doing some housekeeping and suddenly everything went dead and couldn't be fired back up. Another idea down the crapper...

I have pulled leads to both the panel and at some of the units that I could get to, no joy. Have a "cigarette" light that I plug a USB charger into that's just hooked up to the positive bus of this unit, it doesn't work if the lights are out, but works fine when they are.

Tried blowing some air on at the unit, no dice.

I"m out of ideas, but please keep them coming. New one should be here by the end of the week. I'm thinking that's the ultimate solution. Not looking forward to replacing it, but does let me do some house keeping that I've always considered in terms of reordering things.

OH, probably should mention this. If there's a label on the switch, you don't see the "Red" light. I have one unused switch with no label and can easily see the red light if it's in the off position, and a green light if it's switch on. The active switches are labeled and I never see the red light, and only see "light" when the switch is on, highlighting the text on the label.

Thanks again!!

 

[TonySmjc]

Without being there with a test meter and a few hours I’m at a loss

but the fact that it worked when you fooled with the ground makes me believe changing it out will work

Since you need to take all the wires off to re do it anyway
Checking each Piece of equipment for a short after the switch couldn’t hurt

I do feel your pain
Problems like this are a genuine pita

 

[Capt13]

I do feel your pain
Problems like this are a genuine pita

Yes they are !! Most used boats I have purchased, I usually gut the wiring and redo. Including 2 of the three headboats I have owned. Over the years, other owners have usually committed many wiring sins. I found that out the hard way after the wiring harness on my first one completely melted down into a smoldering mess. Luckily it occurred at the dock while the crew was scrubbing down. Unlucky that it happened in the middle of August.

 

[Capt13]

Thanks @TonySmjc & @Capt13. The "Clot Thickens".

It's a Weather Deck Blue Seas 8 switch Waterproof Switch Panel, 4309

Here's the pic:

View attachment 21717

Looks like that panel might have a lifetime warranty!

 

[Roccus7]

Looks like that panel might have a lifetime warranty!

It may, but that assumes it was registered with the manufacturer and it was transferable to me, the second owner. I'll register the new one for sure, and try to send the old one in just to see if they'll honor it, but I can't go without a panel for a few weeks. That's the rub with these lifetime warranties, and I'm not the original owner so not sure it's even valid.

My old boat had gauges that had lifetime warranties. I sent a malfunctioning multi-function tach in at the end of the season and paid the $30 "handling fee" and got a new one. I was able to manage life without a tach for 1/2 a season, but can't do that with no electronics.

 

[TonySmjc]

Yes they are !! Most used boats I have purchased, I usually gut the wiring and redo. Including 2 of the three headboats I have owned. Over the years, other owners have usually committed many wiring sins. I found that out the hard way after the wiring harness on my first one completely melted down into a smoldering mess. Luckily it occurred at the dock while the crew was scrubbing down. Unlucky that it happened in the middle of August.

I’ve found the same thing

twice s I’ve done a rewire and the other I’ve wished I had

 

[Roccus7]

@Capt13 & @TonySmjc:

Well time to eat crow here. Was talking with a very Learned Colleague on LI this evening and he was focusing on the battery leads, which I had checked 2x when 30,000 synapses fired in my brain at the same time SCREAMING, "Dumbchit!!! You didn't check the positive line going from the battery switch to the switch Positive bus!!!!"

Ran down to the dock, hopped aboard, opened the battery compartment and grabbed the wire that was the likely one to the panel and noticing it had a very loose friction-fit bayonet connection around the fuse, nice to know where it is now. Crammed that in nice and tightly, turned on the battery switch and then hit "ON" for the entire panel, turned on the GPS/Sounder/Radar, transmitted radar and transmitted on the radio. Everything worked.

Yes your honor, I'm pleading nolo contendere to the charge of being a real "Dumb Cluck" in this case. The only thing I can say in my flimsy defense is that the fact that there were functioning lights on the panel made me assume there were no problems in power distribution to the switch panel. Of course if there were no lights, I would have known there was insufficient power. I'm asking the court to exercise lenience in my sentence...

Anyone need a nice waterproof 8 switch panel??

 

[TonySmjc]

We that are long standing members welcome you
To that club

mount the panel wire it in it’s always nice to have extra switch’s as time goes by you’ll use them
I’d almost guarantee it

 

[Fluke Whisperer]

@Capt13 & @TonySmjc:

Well time to eat crow here. Was talking with a very Learned Colleague on LI this evening and he was focusing on the battery leads, which I had checked 2x when 30,000 synapses fired in my brain at the same time SCREAMING, "Dumbchit!!! You didn't check the positive line going from the battery switch to the switch Positive bus!!!!"

Ran down to the dock, hopped aboard, opened the battery compartment and grabbed the wire that was the likely one to the panel and noticing it had a very loose friction-fit bayonet connection around the fuse, nice to know where it is now. Crammed that in nice and tightly, turned on the battery switch and then hit "ON" for the entire panel, turned on the GPS/Sounder/Radar, transmitted radar and transmitted on the radio. Everything worked.

Yes your honor, I'm pleading nolo contendere to the charge of being a real "Dumb Cluck" in this case. The only thing I can say in my flimsy defense is that the fact that there were functioning lights on the panel made me assume there were no problems in power distribution to the switch panel. Of course if there were no lights, I would have known there was insufficient power. I'm asking the court to exercise lenience in my sentence...

Anyone need a nice waterproof 8 switch panel??

Sorry I didn't see this earlier, my friend had a similar problem with his Wellcraft, power loss at the electrical panel and sometimes the engine would not kick over, we went through everything, checked the grounds, checked battery cables.
I was baffled, so I got out the ohm meter and started checking for anything that might be suspicious, I checked the positive cable from the battery to the engine, voltage was fine, then I had my buddy kick the motor over and the voltage dropped big time, it turns out the cable was run down and behind a bulk head, from years of twisting from turning the engine the outer covering wore out and corrosion caused the cable in side to swell, there were only 3 strands of the copper wire left, so yea it's not always a ground problem.