10% of the Bottom Catches 90% of the Big Fluke!

[NYSharpie]

As with most fish, being able to catch them as an angler is fun, but being the one who puts the crew on the meat and seeing the boat get and stay on a bite takes it to the next level for me! I wanted to start a thread on strategies for finding a body of Fluke and techniques for staying on the meat. On our boat we are pretty serious about fluke, and something we do pretty well (at least sometimes .

Over time, we have increased our knowledge of hard bottom, reefs, ledges, holes, and sandy flats that catch nice Fluke. Personally, my crew favors the hard bottom where we donate many jigs in exchange for some real quality fish.

I love to scope out an area using my machines (Garmin 7610 is what we have on our boat), work the bottom, and zone in on 1-2 specific drift lines that are producing. Sometimes our drifts are long, other times very short. Another challenge is calculating for ever changing drift conditions; which my good buddy Savvy18 gets on me for "missing the mark!" LOL. One of our best drops is right in the middle of a few conflicting currents, and the time the fish are usually biting is at the end, slack and turn of the tide. This, with varying wind conditions at that time, results in some pretty precise estimation to get over the "X." Either way, I get a real thrill over this aspect of fishing.

This, paired with the right bait selection, color, lure size, jig type, etc... has all resulted in our main crew putting some nice fish in the boat year after year. Like anything else with this sport, however, there is still much to learn. One thing I have learned is to change with the trends. Staying stubborn on the same exact drop that used to be "lights out," will leave you chasing an empty dream.

I also love keeping a record as to what weeks, water temps, etc.. are good for certain drops and try to follow those patterns year after year.

I would love to get the groups perspective on this aspect of running the boat to catch Fluke.

Frank

 

[Savvy18]

Frank, I've been trying to teach Lep how to get over those fluke drops for years!

He's finally starting to get the hang of it.

 

[Leprechaun]

Wow. Good commentary CAPTAIN Savvy18!

I'll finally figure it all out this season, I'm SURE of it.

If not, I'll toss you the boat's key so you can show me how its done!

 

[george]

The title of this post says it all. And there is a lot of good bottom if you know what you're looking for. I wouldn't say its a matter of following them, I think it's more about the combined issues of drift weather, and tidal stage. But when fishing the sound it's all about the edges and the holes you find in them. Once I find that right combo I'm doing short drifts, just as I do when bass fishing.

It's rare I do long drifts anymore. I'll do them when scoping new bottom, but when I get a strike I'm marking it and headed right back over it.

Without a doubt, my biggest fish between, mainly from Smithtown to Pt Jefferson, always come on low slack with perfect wind conditions. We didn't have many fish in our area this season, but I always managed at least one 4-pounder in the mix. I know there weren't many Lep size fish but I'd take the same season all over again.

Without a doubt, I am addicted to fluke fishing. With my boat now in a slip 8-minutes from my home, I'm always checking conditions and run out every chance I get. I may need to go to an FFA meeting

 

[BennyV]

Great post George! I used to work on a boat and every time we caught a fish the capt would hit way point on the plotter. Pretty funny how he used to call out right before a customer would hit a fish.

 

[Leprechaun]

This might be my favorite topic of all. I've written on it extensively on the old site over the years. Right off, what Frankie said is very true. No point fishing where the fish USED to be found. If they aren't there anymore, something changed, be it temps, current, bottom formations, who can say? If they are no longer there, that's the ball game. But you have to give it a really good going over, over several trips (if not seasons), before writing a drop off.

For example, I had a gravelly drop-off a bit North of Cholera that produced outrageous catches for years - like for 10 seasons straight. I never had to go anywhere else, just idle up to the numbers and ride the drift - never not a limit. 10 freakin' years! In fact my Personal Best, at 11lbs2oz came off this open-bottom drift. Look here:

Wow, I was A LOT lighter back then (2006), LOL! Anyway, something happened after those 10 seasons, as I no longer could get arrested on that drop. A few shorts, maybe a keeper now and then, but other than that, a big fat nothin' - for a few seasons straight. Such a beautiful drop - with a gentle fall-away of maybe 10' from West to East. The sonar doesn't lie, the bottom appears unchanged - but the fish certainly don't agree. What was once the most productive bottom I had ever fished, became, for lack of a better word, barren. This is what caused me to re-think my entire approach to deep fluking - and switch over to the hard bottom, and to assiduously work at perfecting techniques and discovering drift lines that now pay huge dividends.

We did fish the deep hard stuff way back when, and I mean in the mid/late '70's. But back then it was with the then-standard 3'-leadered fluke rigs - and so naturally the hang-ups were frequent and frustrating. Though we did spend a good amount of time bucktailing our local Bay channels, as well as Jones Inlet itself, we hadn't yet perfected the skills, nor had the proper tackle (Braid, thin sensitive graphite rods) to fish the deep hard drops properly. We'd go out there with 20lb mono (Green Ghost by Gudebrod and Bonnyl by Abu-Garcia were the hot tips), and try our best. But each of us losing a bunch of rigs in the first few drifts would force us back onto the adjacent sand. It just wasn't practical fishing there, given the techniques universally employed back in the day.

But I never forgot the few nice fish we did take, while fishing that type of bottom out there. Just had to wait for the tackle to improve to the point that fishing ( jigging) those areas made sense. Well, that time has certainly arrived, hasn't it? Now we can sail out there and clobber them on the nastiest of drops. Naturally we still hang up once in a while. But the upward-pointing hook of a bucktail jig really does help a good bit with the snagging nonsense.

As far as technique - forget for a moment which type rod is best, or how one dances a bucktail properly. Nope, the most important part of this type of fishing is the building of a proper drop book for the grounds you frequent. I know its a big fat PITA, but every time I drift over obstructed bottom, I run to the helm and scribble the numbers onto my dash's surface - for later writing into my drop book and punching into my two Garmins. Yes, I know that I can save a drop by double hitting the Enter button - but doing that just drops the numbers into the next available open memory slot, but I'd rather have control over that myself. Plus then I'd have to write up my drop entries as well - in my book. No time for that whilst trying to improve on the above pictured fish. That sort of "actuarial" stuff is for later, back at the dock.

Anyway, it can get wearying, having to drop my rod into a rod holder and zipping up to the helm every time I pass over rubble that I do not already have on my plotters, and as stated, it certainly eats into the amount of fish I can personally catch - viz-a-viz what my crew can hook while I'm not fishing. But it MUST be done, if you're gonna build a proper book. Call it the "Captain's handicap," if you want to put a name to it. Once the boat is back at the dock, unloaded and scrubbed, and the fish cut, I can then go to the helm and input the numbers that I scribbled during the trip.

I guess I now have around 70 sets of quality numbers at Cholera - and probably close to that for the adjoining deep areas. Its to the point that I'm satisfied that no matter the tide or breeze, direction or intensity, I can select a drift line that will put us over the largest number of obstructions. Its like Frankie wrote, some are nice long drifts and some are quite tight, but all can be very productive, provided the fish decide to eat.

That, after all, is the final determinant. I can put us dead-nuts on solid drifts, but if the fish don't open their mouths, face it, we're screwed. Luckily, the fish pretty much never not bite through an entire trip. Sometimes its just a matter of waiting them out - if you're confident in your drop selection. I particularly enjoy the irony of grinding through three hours fishing with the fleet for little if anything, and then watching most of the boats get disgusted and blast off for greener pastures - just as the bite turns on. The fish were there all along - just have to be a little patient. Hey, its really their call, not ours!

And that might be the toughest part of being a consistent captain. Having faith. I'm not saying ruin a trip with stubborn insistence - I've done that plenty of times over the years - and learned from the NOT catching as well. Rather, try showing some confidence borne of past success, but also allow some flexibility into your thought process.

Oh, and have a cell phone ready, in case you do get cold feet. If you're having a tough day, give a check with your buddy captains as to what's going on where they're fishing. Hey, nobody's perfect - maybe their choices were just plain better than yours that day. It happens. Adapt. Don't be so parochial in your drop choices. Its really a fine line - between confidence and being stubborn. The trick is knowing which is which - and when. And that's no easy call, believe me.

So its certainly true that not only does 10-20% of the bottom hold 90% of the fish, but the old adage of 10% of the fishers catching 90% of the fish is equally accurate. You'd think that the superior electronics and far more seaworthy boats now available to us would cut into those numbers. But really, it just doesn't seem to be the case. It still comes down to captaining, based upon experience and effort expended.

 

[MOJOE]

lep :cool:,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ><))):>
><))):>

 

[george]

It still comes down to captaining, based on experience and effort expended.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Savvy18]

There's NO doubt that knowing your bottom and being confident that even when the fish are not biting, they will be at specific stages of the tide. The confidence to wait it out often dictates which boats will catch and which will go home frustrated.

Frank & myself have seen it dozens of times on our local bottom. We start our drifts very early in the morning, ALONE with ZERO boats within a mile of us. After we've made 10-15 drifts in that area, a fleet will congregate wondering what they are missing. Not realizing that what they are "missing" is productive, fish holding bottom in their machines. It literally took years to cultivate that area and master it. And even after you've done that, the Captain still has to be skilled enough to consistently put you over that bottom, even while conditions around you constantly change. THAT is the true art of fluke fishing.

What that means is Frank needs to make more fluke trips with Pete and see if he can learn a few tricks! Maybe get Pete out on his beautiful Grady White Seafarer and get a quick lesson. Every boat drifts differently and at different speeds. It truly is a science getting it right.

 

[NYSharpie]

Loving this topic. I always say that the only ways to get better at catching fish are by doing it and fishing with guys who are better and more experienced than you. Whenever if fish with my buddies, I am always observing technique and captaining skills. Guys like Pete, Mark, Eddie and Pat (all us west end guys) all bring something different to the equation.

Pete is also right about having a network on the water. Often times my good friend Mark and I start off on different areas and keep in touch on how our mornings are working out.

Here are a few pics of some big ones, all caught on the same drop, similar tide (end, slack or turn), on days when drift conditions had us cruising under a knot and we had nice clear water. All of these fish, ranging from 9.0-13.67 were caught within 150 feet of each other.


Having said that, this is still one of those spots that will yield some big fish and great days, but Eddie will agree, it just isn’t what it used to be.

Frank

 

[NYSharpie]

Pete, not sure if you consider yourself a west guy? I guess it depends where on LI you fish.. Lol

 

[Leprechaun]

To East End guys, we fish “To the West.” To the Brooklyn crowd we fish “Way East.”

And both think they’re better fishers than we mid-South Shore guys. “Can’t we all get along?”

So confusing. I’m like the “Man without a Country.” Did you read that one in High School?

That’s us. Sentenced to roaming the seas forever without a true home. So lonely.

 

[pequa1]

Reminds me of posts after the BIG SPOT BURN debacle on that "other" website for surfcasting. Do I live and fish Western South shore or Central South shore ? Turned out it didn't matter as we were not to put anything, and I mean anything, in a report that might allude to a location. If I was skunked, which was my usual, I would post 55 meters west of the eastern underpass, etc. Back on topic, I only fish the bay and year after year some of my usual spots change in depth a bit. I used to think the buoys were off a bit, but my buddy's boat's GPS would say they hadn't. And let's face it, its much easier to return to location in a buoyed bay than where you guys fish.

 

[Leprechaun]

Frankie - the truth is that my local area doesn't produce a ton of true Double-Digits. But the various bottoms I like to fish near Jones Inlet DO give up copious numbers of those nice and tasty 4 to 9lb specimens - you've been with me enough to know that's a true statement. And I'll take THOSE all day long!

Coming out of JI, and given the proper sea conditions, we're still within an hour's ride of the Fire Island drops, not to mention the bottom that you "western" guys like - all the way to the VZ Bridge, if need be. And that's my self-imposed limitation. I will sail anywhere the fishing might be best, UP TO a one hour or so run from my jetty.

Hey, the truth is that I'm a fisher, not a boater. Setting aside the whole "pride of ownership" thing for a moment, the plain fact is that the Lep is the vehicle, the platform to get me over the fish, nothing more. I have no pressing crave to listen to my engine for long hours, as cool as an unmuffled V8 sounds - to my old ears, at least.

I leave that stuff for the three-outboard types. They seem to LOVE blasting around at 40 kts, shooting from one area to the next - and back again. We see and joke about it all the time. Back and forth, all day long. Its gotta be tough trying to catch decent fluke with your boat flying all over the ocean at those speeds. But if that's what makes a "captain" happy, who can deny them their horsepower-induced endorphin rush? Not I, that's for sure. Hey more fish for me, while they do their version of the "Fluke Poker Run."

Nope, its about the fishing, not the boating. For me at least.

 

[george]

I’m with ya Lep. There’s never a time my boat leaves the slip without tackle. Although I wouldn’t mind having something that can handle trip outboards

 

[Roccus7]

Frankie - the truth is that my local area doesn't produce a ton of true Double-Digits. But the various bottoms I like to fish near Jones Inlet DO hold copious numbers of those nice and tasty 4 to 9lb specimens. And I'll take THOSE all day long! Coming out of JI, and given the proper sea conditions, we're still within an hour's ride of the Fire Island drops, not to mention the bottom that you guys like - all the way to the VZ Bridge, if need be. And that's my self-imposed limitation. I will sail anywhere the fishing might be best, UP TO a one hour run from my jetty.

Hey, the truth is that I'm a fisher, not a boater. Setting aside the whole "pride of ownership" thing for a moment, the plain fact is that the Lep is the vehicle, the platform to get me over the fish, nothing more. I have no pressing crave to listen to my engine for long hours, as cool as an unmuffled V8 sounds - to my old ears, at least.

I leave that stuff for the three-outboard types. They seem to LOVE blasting around at 40 kts, shooting from one area to the next - and back again. We see it and joke about it all the time. Back and forth, all day long. Its gotta be tough trying to catch decent fluke with your boat flying all over the ocean at those speeds. But if that's what makes a "captain" happy, who can deny them their horsepower-induced endorphin rush? Not I, that's for sure. Hey more fish for me, while they do their version of the "Fluke Poker Run."

Nope, its about the fishing, not the boating. For me at least.

This thread's topic is probably true for just about any species, and I do love Lep's comments above. They mirror my thoughts on stripers, although since 90% of my fishing is within eyesight of "the barn", I limit my striper travel times to 20 min and it's not the engine sound that bothers me while running around, it's the burning of ga$. Another very refreshing thing around here is the vast majority of boat owners are extremely practical. In 10 years I've only seen 1 triple outboard rig and nothing bigger.

Besides always having striper gear aboard even on boat rides, after mid-June I try to remember to keep a rigged tuna trolling rod on board, as "tuna sighting protection." Rod on board, no tuna. Forget the rod, CRAP look at that bluefin!!! I'd rather not see one, than try to troll one out of a maze of lobster pots which we know will only end badly...

 

[Leprechaun]

Roccus - you “haven’t lived” until you get dusted by a 4x350hp center console, cruising passed you at 50kts, heading for the exact same drops you fish. He’ll ALWAYS win that race with me, that’s 100% for sure.

But that’s not the race I run. For my crew its not about being the first boat to the grounds. Nope, I’d much rather be the first boat OFF the grounds - with a full boat limit. Now THAT’S my kind of race!

 

[NYSharpie]

I will start off by saying, I have never fished with a captain who is as consistent putting the boat on quality limits of Fluke as Pete. Just about every trip I am on with him I go home with a hefty bag of big fluke fillets. On many of these trips there are a number of guys who are fishing, what appears to be, the same bottom, and we rarely see a net pulled from the rod holder. These guys zoom from place to place thinking that constantly trying new bottom is the answer. One of the things I find that Pete and I do similar is work a drop that we know are likely to produce. I believe in the bottom it has taken me years to map out and learn the ins and outs of.

Most of the time, when there is a good deal of confidence in a spot, and recent trips have produced, it is a waiting game. Many days, there is a 30 minute to 1 hour window when the big boys come out to eat. It is important to be there with lines in the water when they do, not driving to try to find where they might be. There are certain days when we strike out, and others we bail, but I will take this approach any day and it has resulted in more days bringing home some real nice fish.

I agree with Pete, I am not a fan of spending the majority of my day driving, and going to the Flemish Cap because further is better. I get a real thrill actually, fishing super local, zoning in on our bay drops (local holes, contoured bottom, and bridges, etc) or drops just outside the inlet, spending the majority of the day fishing, not cruising, and working for some real nice fish. This past May-June, our bay held some real brutes; and those of you who fish Jamaica bay know that it is full of nooks, holes and hard bottom. A banner day for us is pushing off by 6AM, fishing the local drops and specific tide stages, catching em up, and leaving the dock with the boat and fish cleaned by 1130AM. Then off to Ginos for a lunch - right Eddie! Cold Seafood salad!

Frank

 

[george]

These are things that can't be taught. You have to experience it and have confidence that you will eventually get it.

 

[MK5381]

Frankie, love the topic. I'm sure guys on here already know it but those same tog drops you are fishing in Oct/Nov/Dec and prime fluke real estate. Most times I go togging I am always marking spots to check for fluke too. I have recently (within the last 2 years), started to venture out deeper, to some of my fun tog spots and tried "deep dropping" for fluke. Some success but still need to fine tune my approach. Seems those deeper drops hold quality fish (up to 7lbs so far) but a LOT less shorts and overall action. Some drops are so loaded with short c-bass that you can't get through to the fluke. On one hand, it's fun to try new spots, particularly when you are the only boat around for miles but on the other hand, it is tough to burn the gas when the fishing is good close to home. Which is was last year on the south shore reefs. Again, if I'm not fishing rough stuff, I'm not having fun. The key is try to skirt the rough stuff yet stay close enough to grab those fish lurking off the drops. I find that when coming up and over a piece, more often than not, the fish will hit on the backside. I love it when we have those calm days when you can motor right up to a piece drop down (keeping the rig right along the top of the piece) then watching the machine as it starts to drop then tell the guys to get ready. Tough the fish the rough stuff when the wind starts cranking though.

As for drift lines, both reefs I fish have the rubble laid out from east to west which is why I love a light west wind with outgoing tide. Can't beat it. Got one spot we call the goal posts because of 2 pieces marked close by on my machine. When I'm running, I run right between the pieces or "goal posts", stop and drift right back between the posts. Can't tell you how the fish like to lay in between these two pieces. Drift pass it then do it again. I'm the king of short drifts once I zero in a pattern. As for rigs, can't beat gulp. We almost always use a hi-lo and instead of a Bucktail, will use a sinker with a light piece of mono as a breakaway. Then use 2 dropper loops, with the bottom one near the sinker, maybe 6" up. Two gulps and you're ready to go. Lots of limits last year on the rough stuff using this method.

Also, as Frankie and Pete mentioned, having a network of friends on the water is invaluable! Whether on a good bite or not, we will talk to each other to let them know what is going on. I get almost as much joy calling over a friend and watch them get into a bite as us catching. Well, almost

my .02

Mark