2025 Hudson River Striped Bass was poor

[Roccus7]

For the 3rd year in a row, the Hudson River YOY abundance was below the 25th which tripped the ASMFC Amendment 7 Low Recruitment trigger!! And for those of you who are "graphically challenged" this is the 1st time on record that there have been 3 consecutive YOY classes below the 25% so yeah, it is a big deal!!

What they'll do is debatable, but I'd love for them to have New York SHUT DOWN ALL FISHING in the Hudson during the spawn!! The fact that NY is the only state that allows fishing in the spawning area during the spawn these days is unfathomable.

Now all states that do YOY abundance screenings are in Low Recruitment shithole, VA, MD, and NJ and nobody has a solid reason for the crash, so let's keep arguing about silly-short term items like whether or not the 9% mortality rate for recretional release is too high, whether or not the For Hire fleet should be allowed to keep an extra fish, what should the slot be etc., because:
NONE OF THESE THINGS WILL HELP THE IMPENDING CRASH OF STRIPED BASS!!!
But go ahead, keep harping on these futile issues and ignore the fact that the whole fishery is going down the crapper in a few years, and even IF we get excellent few spawns in the next couple of years, some of us "elders" probably won't live see to see that rebound.

 

[captmike28]

For the 3rd year in a row, the Hudson River YOY abundance was below the 25th which tripped the ASMFC Amendment 7 Low Recruitment trigger!! And for those of you who are "graphically challenged" this is the 1st time on record that there have been 3 consecutive YOY classes below the 25% so yeah, it is a big deal!!

What they'll do is debatable, but I'd love for them to have New York SHUT DOWN ALL FISHING in the Hudson during the spawn!! The fact that NY is the only state that allows fishing in the spawning area during the spawn these days is unfathomable.

Now all states that do YOY abundance screenings are in Low Recruitment shithole, VA, MD, and NJ and nobody has a solid reason for the crash, so let's keep arguing about silly-short term items like whether or not the 9% mortality rate for recretional release is too high, whether or not the For Hire fleet should be allowed to keep an extra fish, what should the slot be etc., because:
NONE OF THESE THINGS WILL HELP THE IMPENDING CRASH OF STRIPED BASS!!!
But go ahead, keep harping on these futile issues and ignore the fact that the whole fishery is going down the crapper in a few years, and even IF we get excellent few spawns in the next couple of years, some of us "elders" probably won't live see to see that rebound.

View attachment 111459

I do agree with you, Roccus, that fishing for a fish during its spawning period in their spawning area is suicidal and something needs to be done on a more targeted basis.

Overall, I am still suspicious of most of the data presented to us as we know that many of the collection methods are severely flawed. Like sampling in the same areas year after year while we know that fish and their forage do move around. A more thorough sampling over a larger area would at least give me more confidence in the accuracy of the numbers.

I am also concerned about the ability of any good statistician being able to manipulate numbers to make things appear one way or another. I am not accusing you of doing this, Roccus. But if I look at the big picture of the twenty years shown on this study there are plenty of years where the average and trends look to be fairly healthy. I also see no more than one year at a time where the stocks are low, followed by a few good years. We may be on the low side over the last three years in this graph but at least it is trending upwards again.

Am I just an eternal optimist or "graphically challenged"?

 

[OVERBORED]

I believe Mike's assertions are spot on!

Most other species have changed their habits but the Striped Bass still breeds in the same areas it did for the last 100years? Sorry. I think fish are more instinctive than to lay eggs where they'll die. And when it comes to data collection,you gotta do better than a 100' seine being dragged around by 2 non-fishermen.

I do agree that the spring spawn North of the GW needs to be protected as well as the Raritan Bay area where alot of those big females start feeding in spring.

 

[Roccus7]

OK, maybe many of you are not aware how the YOY studies are done and what they do/don't say.

They are done in the late fall seining multiple times in multiple locations of the nursery, looking for the fish from that spring's spawn. The numbers reported are the average of all these data. Below is how MD does the study, and for those of you that wonder about the possibility that the fish are hanging out elsewhere, they did a sanity check this year which is presented below with my emphasis.

• MD Survey Method: Since the 1950s, DNR has used 100-foot seine nets to sample 22 sites in key spawning areas: Choptank, Nanticoke, Potomac rivers, and the Upper Chesapeake Bay.
  
  During this annual survey, fishery managers sample 22 sites located in four major striped bass spawning areas: the Choptank, Nanticoke, and Potomac rivers, and the upper Chesapeake Bay. Biologists visit each site three times per summer, collecting fish with two sweeps of a 100-foot beach seine net. The index represents the average number of 3-inch or less juvenile striped bass caught in each sweep of the net.
  
  Similar fish surveys were conducted this summer in the Patapsco, Magothy, Severn, Rhode, West, and Tred Avon rivers, and St. Clements and Breton bays. Those surveys, which were conducted outside the annual survey locations, found even fewer young-of-year striped bass.

MD has run the studies since the 1950s. I'm not sure if NY did it prior to 1983, and I think VA is the close to or the same as MD. I have no idea for NJ.

Since the surveys are done in the fall and just look for juvenile fish, the data represents how many little stripers there are. It does not:

• Tell us how many adult fish were in the spawning area
  
  
• Tell us how many eggs were laid nor how many eggs hatched
  
  
• Tell us how many hatchlings perished over the summer by predation, starvation or environmental issues
  
  
• It just tells us the abundance of Year Old Striped Bass in a particular year, and can be evaluated against the historical results

If any of you can suggest a better or more complete study to figure out how many striped bass spawn in a particular striper nursery let's hear it. Regardless, I'll bet if you, like me, measure every striped bass you catch and record the data, you will see that the average size fish you've caught over the past 5 years has gone up, and you've seen far less small (young) fish. Personally I haven't caught less than a 20" fish in 3 seasons, when in prior seasons that would be my average sized fish. Therefore it's a fact that few, if any smaller fish are in the striped bass population and these YOY studies provide accurate data.

Some of you may say that "I've heard that there are fish spawning in another area not surveyed". If you could provide the name of the river with a confirmatory state from that state's fisheries organization, GREAT!! So far none of these "I've heard..." comments has been confirmed. You must also keep in mind that 80-90%of our striped bass come from the Chesapeake Watershed with the remainder from the Hudson watershed. So if there is anything more than trivial spawn from other rivers, it would have been witnessed and confirmed by state organizations. Look at Maine, the Kennebec River had a very strong spawning population which crashed in the 70s, and there was a transfer of a good number of Hudson River fish which did reestablish a spawn that went pretty well for maybe 20 years, but that has seemed to be disappear. I haven't seen any data on that in 4 or so years.

 

[OVERBORED]

Sorry how will a complete shutdown help with the spawning numbers?

The public believes what they see. And what they see are a healthy fishery her in NY. So healthy that the sheer numbers of fish are more than most have seen in their lifetime.

The graph, at best shows inconsistent spawning numbers.

We want to close the most reliable upon fishery on the East Coast because of that? I completely disagree.

I'll also add that there are plenty of spawning sized fish around. Let's address the loss of spawning habitat and not blame fishing for all those bad stats. Starting to sound like PETA.

 

[Roccus7]

Sorry how will a complete shutdown help with the spawning numbers?

The problem is that nobody knows what's causing the YOY numbers to be down coastwide, It might not help at all, but momentary spawn area closure couldn't hurt. I'm far from even suggesting a complete shutdown, just suggesting no fishing during the spawn in the Hudson Nursery. NY & NJ are the only states to continue to allow it while MD & VA have shut it down for a couple of years now.

Aye, there is the rub, there's no hints that the spawn fishing shutdown have improved the YOY, which strongly suggests there are other factors at play. What infuriates me is it seems that all efforts on striped bass are focused on anything BUT trying to figure out why the YOY are down coastwide!! We seem to spend our time discussing other issues like slots, closures, commercial regulation, etc. and NOT focusing the scientists to figure WTF striped bass can't generate significant numbers of healthy young fish. Any effort not directed at that are futile.

No matter what one wants to say, the YOY data, which are very valid, point out that we're about to go over the edge of the cliff. We are the the epitome of Nero fiddling while Rome burned...

 

[OVERBORED]

What infuriates me is it seems that all efforts on striped bass are focused on anything BUT trying to figure out why the YOY are down coastwide!! We seem to spend our time discussing other issues like slots, closures, commercial regulation, etc.

I agree 150%! We're treating the symptom and not the disease.