Big Hearings Regarding Recreational Scup, BSB, Bluefish & Fluke coming up!! Make your voice heard!!

[Roccus7]

SCOPING FOR THE RECREATIONHAL SECTOR SEPARATION AND DATA COLLECTION AMENDMENT

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC), along with the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (MAFMC), have scheduled a series of scoping hearings to gather public input on issues and information to be considered in the Recreational Sector Separation and Data Collection Amendment to the Summer Flounder, Scup, and Black Sea Bass Fishery Management Plan (FMP) and the Bluefish FMP. Hearings will be held February 24 – March 5. Written comments will be accepted through March 20, 2025.

Scoping is the first and best opportunity to provide input on the issues to be addressed during development of management options. The purpose of the proposed amendment is to consider modifications to the recreational management program for summer flounder, scup, black sea bass, and bluefish. Specifically, options may consider managing for-hire recreational fisheries separately from other recreational fishing modes (referred to as sector separation), and options related to the collection and use of recreational data, such as private angler reporting and enhanced for-hire vessel trip reporting requirements. The Public Information/Scoping Document provides a broad overview of the issues identified for consideration in the amendment. Additional information and updates are available on the MAMFC action page or the ASMFC public input page.



HEARING SCHEDULE

Below is information on how to participate in each hearing. If you are unable to participate in your state’s scheduled hearing, you are welcome to participate in any of the hearings.

Date and Time	Hearing Type	State Contacts
Monday, February 24 6:00 - 8:00 p.m.	Webinar Hearing (Register here)	Joseph Cimino (NJ) 609.748.2020
Wednesday, February 26 6:00 - 8:00 p.m.	Hybrid Hearing In-Person Location: New York State Marine Resources Headquarters, 123 Kings Park Blvd., Kings Park, NY 11754 Webinar Registration	Martin Gary (NY) 631.444.0430 Matthew Gates (CT) 860.876.4393
Thursday, February 27 6:00 - 8:00 p.m.	Hybrid Hearing In-Person Location: University of Rhode Island Bay Campus, Corless Auditorium, 215 South Ferry Road, Narragansett, RI 02882 Webinar Registration (Zoom)	Jason McNamee (RI) 401.537.4141
Tuesday, March 4 6:00 - 8:00 p.m.	Webinar Hearing (Register here)	Ron Owens (PRFC) 804.224.7148 Pat Geer (VA) 757.247.2200 Chris Batsavage (NC) 252.241.2995
Wednesday, March 5 6:00 - 8:00 p.m.	Webinar Hearing (Register here)	Corrin Flora (ME) 207.446.8126 Renee Zobel (NH) 603.868.1095 Nichola Meserve (MA) 978.619.0017

Additional webinar instructions are available HERE.



SUBMITTING COMMENT

All interested individuals are encouraged to provide comments at any of five public scoping hearings or by submitting written comments through one of the methods listed below. Comments must be received by 11:59 pm EST on Thursday, March 20, 2025.

1. ONLINE at https://mafmc.knack.com/public-comments#rec-sector-separation-data-collection/
2. EMAIL to [email protected] (subject: Recreational Sector Separation and Data Collection)
3. MAIL to Dr. Christopher Moore, Executive Director, Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council, 800 North State Street, Suite 201, Dover, DE 19901 (Please write “Recreational Sector Separation and Data Collection” on the envelope)

All comments, regardless of submission method, will be compiled into a single document for review and consideration by both the Council and Commission.

If you have any questions about this amendment, please contact either:

• Kiley Dancy, Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council, [email protected], 302-526-5257
• Tracey Bauer, Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, [email protected], 703-842-0723

 

[captmike28]

Thanks for the update, Dom. I plan to do my homework and be present at the Kings Park meeting.

 

[Roccus7]

Thanks for the update, Dom. I plan to do my homework and be present at the Kings Park meeting.

As I have no dogs in this fight, I may listen in on the NY/CT session munching on popcorn. The fact that the regulators are considering breaking out the For Hire group from the Recreational sector is most interesting, and will be quite telling in terms of attendance and comments.

If past history repeats, the For Hire entourage will be well-represented and vocal, as one would expect because this is a source of their livelihood, while the Recreational only group will be minimally represented.

It will be interesting to see if the latter group wakes up and participates in these sessions, instead of whining from their keyboards after the fact...

 

[OVERBORED]

As I have no dogs in this fight, I may listen in on the NY/CT session munching on popcorn. The fact that the regulators are considering breaking out the For Hire group from the Recreational sector is most interesting, and will be quite telling in terms of attendance and comments.

If past history repeats, the For Hire entourage will be well-represented and vocal, as one would expect because this is a source of their livelihood, while the Recreational only group will be minimally represented.

It will be interesting to see if the latter group wakes up and participates in these sessions, instead of whining from their keyboards after the fact...

I'm not sure how I feel about this. As you said, will the represented user groups have a bigger voice?

Hmmmmm.........surf guys getting more bluefish quota than boat guys because they catch more?

I guess being about biomass and sustainable quotas no longer has relevance.

 

[Roccus7]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. As you said, will the represented user groups have a bigger voice?

Hmmmmm.........surf guys getting more bluefish quota than boat guys because they catch more?

I guess being about biomass and sustainable quotas no longer has relevance.

I'm with you, not sure how I feel about this. Doesn't impact me in the least, as I've only caught a single, 7" member of the fish being discussed up here.

However every year I wonder if the GOM has warmed enough for me to do some fluking, catch a tog or two, get into some BSB and/or bluefish or trap some blue claw crabs, all of which show up every odd year in Southern Maine.

 

[OVERBORED]

I'm with you, not sure how I feel about this. Doesn't impact me in the least, as I've only caught a single, 7" member of the fish being discussed up here.

However every year I wonder if the GOM has warmed enough for me to do some fluking, catch a tog or two, get into some BSB and/or bluefish or trap some blue claw crabs, all of which show up every odd year in Southern Maine.

I've caught blackfish (and quite a few flounder)in Hampton so it's only a matter of time before they show up by you.

Heck....cobia, drum and triggerfish are now summer residents in the NY bight!

 

[OVERBORED]

Bluefish have the most assinine and nonsensical regulations of any fish on the planet.

No size limit. No season!

No preservation of juveniles or spawning season.

Can anyone explain this to me?

 

[hawk375]

hopefully dodge will get rid of this group of computer nerds and give fish back to fisherman rec and commercial who recognize fish are also food not just a catch and release mortality stat

 

[hartattack]

Looks like this meeting has been rescheduled to 2/25

UPDATED: MAFMC and ASMFC to Hold Public Information/Scoping Hearings on Recreational Sector Separation and Data Collection Amendment
Please note: This press release revises the February 3rd announcement by changing the date of the New Jersey hearing from February 24 to February 25. The hearing time and location remain the same.

The Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council (Council) and the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (Commission) have scheduled a series of scoping hearings to gather public input on the range of issues and information to be considered in the Recreational Sector Separation and Data Collection Amendment to the Summer Flounder, Scup, and Black Sea Bass Fishery Management Plan (FMP) and the Bluefish FMP. Hearings will be held February 25 – March 5, 2025. Written comments will be accepted through March 20, 2025.

 

[captmike28]

Bluefish have the most assinine and nonsensical regulations of any fish on the planet.

No size limit. No season!

No preservation of juveniles or spawning season.

Can anyone explain this to me?

While preparing for the upcoming ASMFC meeting I re-read this thread.

I fully agree that our Bluefish regs are ridiculous without a size or seasonal limit. However, there is a 3 fish bag limit (5 fish on for-hire boats) which does restrict the catch somewhat. At least with only 3 fish no law-abiding angler is taking home a pail full of Snappers for their fish fry.

Personally, Bluefish are a very important species for my charter business and continue to grow in significance as the regs on Striped Bass tighten. No doubt they save the day on many trips and most of those caught on my boat are returned anyway.

Still, the numbers caught on the North Fork are also not what we saw even 5 or 6 years ago. I would be in favor of some type of seasonal restriction, as long as it coincided with protecting the fishes spawning period.

 

[OVERBORED]

While preparing for the upcoming ASMFC meeting I re-read this thread.

I fully agree that our Bluefish regs are ridiculous without a size or seasonal limit. However, there is a 3 fish bag limit (5 fish on for-hire boats) which does restrict the catch somewhat. At least with only 3 fish no law-abiding angler is taking home a pail full of Snappers for their fish fry.

Personally, Bluefish are a very important species for my charter business and continue to grow in significance as the regs on Striped Bass tighten. No doubt they save the day on many trips and most of those caught on my boat are returned anyway.

Still, the numbers caught on the North Fork are also not what we saw even 5 or 6 years ago. I would be in favor of some type of seasonal restriction, as long as it coincided with protecting the fishes spawning period.

I agree Mike.

Often overlooked, they've become very important to the for-hire guys as well as the surf crowd.

I'd like to give those early spring arrivals (the ones that are 30" but only 8lbs) a chance to get where they're going.

As far as Stripers go, I just read an article in the fisherman about a 49" fish that spent most of its life in the EEZ. In the 90s, I remember jigging Bass & Cod in the Nantucket Rips. More Bass than cod (They were bigger. Must have scared the chit out of the cod)

Goes to show..........nature adapts. ASMFC is stuck on old data and even older models. Need fresh ideas!

 

[captmike28]

I agree Mike.

Often overlooked, they've become very important to the for-hire guys as well as the surf crowd.

I'd like to give those early spring arrivals (the ones that are 30" but only 8lbs) a chance to get where they're going.

As far as Stripers go, I just read an article in the fisherman about a 49" fish that spent most of its life in the EEZ. In the 90s, I remember jigging Bass & Cod in the Nantucket Rips. More Bass than cod (They were bigger. Must have scared the chit out of the cod)

Goes to show..........nature adapts. ASMFC is stuck on old data and even older models. Need fresh ideas!

I read the same article, Overbored and it is true that Stripers have fins, know how to swim, and will pursue their food wherever it may be.

About 8-10 years ago when I still made spring cod trips south of Block, in the EEZ, we also used to see some
Stripers as a by catch along with the Cod. And some real nice ones too, like you mentioned.

 

[pequa1]

My sons no longer fish and I only surfcast for a very occasional striper and backbay kayak fish for fluke and weaks. I sent in my emails for a "same season", a slot for fluke, and a two fish bag limit. Keep blues and weaks the same.

 

[OVERBORED]

Bluefish is another species that is found in relative abundance offshore along with blackback flounder.

Could it be that all this fertilizer along with warmer temps have caused these fish to adapt and populate deeper, cooler areas with more abundant forage?

 

[pequa1]

Leaking cesspools, everyone’s overuse of fertilizer, herbicides and insecticides (not me, I have zoysia, lol) cormorants and warmer weather haven’t helped.

 

[Crabman]

Leaking cesspools, everyone’s overuse of fertilizer, herbicides and insecticides (not me, I have zoysia, lol) cormorants and warmer weather haven’t helped.

Cormorants are the worst bird around. There should be a bounty on them. They eat all the stocked trout from the lakes and when they are done with them, it's off to the canals. I watch them in my backyard chowing down on eels. The eels, like most fish, don't have a chance against cormorants.

 

[Snapprhead27]

Tomorrow is the NY still right? Make sure I'm not misreading because I signed up to listen in

 

[captmike28]

Tomorrow is the NY still right? Make sure I'm not misreading because I signed up to listen in

That is correct, Matt. I will be attending live.

 

[Roccus7]

Any comments from folks their or viewing online?? I passed since I feel strongly both ways on this one...

 

[captmike28]

Any comments from folks their or viewing online?? I passed since I feel strongly both ways on this one...

Since you asked, Roccus, here is my summary of what I saw and heard last night.

First, I don't know how many people were actually listening online, but the physical turnout at the DEC office was the smallest I have seen in the last several years. Maybe about 25 tops and, as expected the majority were from the for-hire industry.
Next, although I think I am reasonably intelligent and can read, a number of participants, including myself, did not really understand the nature of the questions posed in the "Scoping Document". I had a fully typewritten response that I intended to present live plus follow up with a formal letter. After I heard the real direction the fisheries managers and different positions of the angling community want to take, I had to rethink my opinions.

My initial impression was this amendment was to start gathering data from the "Recreational Sector" directly instead of using MRIP fudge factor estimates in conjunction with the VTR's submitted by for-hire folks. Again, it was my impression that others were also confused by some of the questions and terminology used in the "Scoping Document".

What it appears they actually want to do is find a mechanism to gather more data from the Recreational community to hopefully obtain a better data set to be combined with for-hire catch reports to decide upon size and bag limits. My overall concern here is how are you going to do that? You know what the results are likely to be if you punish people by taking away their ability to fish recreationally, in whatever form that manifests itself.

After a more thorough explanation of the proposed amendment and the questions posed by the for-hire participants, it became far more obvious that what is being asked for is a loosening of the regulations for the for-hire industry as compared to recreational allowances. We already have some form of this when it comes to current regulations for both Bluefish and Scup. I believe most in the for-hire segment do favor the ability to take a few more of the targeted species for their customers to maintain the health of their businesses.

As is pointed out many times over the years, the amount of money, time, uncertainty, and aggravation associated with running a fishing business far exceeds any recreational participation on an individual basis. Plus let's not forget for most of the for-hire folks this is their livelihood, not just a pastime. If anyone else's full time job was threatened in this way I suspect they too would be outraged.

Once again, looking at this from a business perspective, Commercial operations that use nets, longlines, pots, etc. already have different size limits and catch quotes different from the rest of us. I am not saying the Party Boat/Charter Boat operators need to have those levels of allowable catch, but it seems logical to me that they should be given some additional assistance. After all these businesses are also investing huge sums of money and time to earn a living in a respectable way. For many of these folks it is truly a matter of survival. Anyone in my age bracket, and probably many much younger, have seen the steady decline of the number of Party and Charter vessels left.

Of course, the overarching problem continues to be the way the "fisheries scientists" collect and analyze the data. We have all seen the obvious flaws in the methods they use and the terrible outcomes that result from that. I mean no disrespect to any recreational angler out there, but I have to say that the very best data, logically speaking, has to come from the folks who literally make their living doing it every day. That is not to say there aren't recreational anglers who are every bit as skilled as a for-hie person. But overall, the for-hire folks have to produce, or their businesses fail If the recreational fisherman doesn't catch a fish on a given day, they still had an enjoyable outdoor experience in most cases.

So ultimately, I think recreational and for-hire regulations do need to be devised based upon individual sets of data OR more effective method to blending the information form both sources. The problem is how do you get reliable data from the recreational community. On the for-hire side the agencies wield a big stick threatening to revoke our permits if we do not report in a timely and complete fashion. How can this be done on the recreational side?

I have at least one concern, and also a possible solution. If you are just going to take random samples of recreational anglers, you are certain to include data f\rom SOME anglers who are not as skilled as others. So maybe you interview the for-hie folks to suggest names of those who know wat they are doing to get the most accurate read. Next, as I said before, using punishments to obtain desired behaviors doesn't normally produce the desired results. How about offering an incentive to the skilled recreational angler that has an observer join them for the day. Why not have the fisheries management board arrange to pay for the fuel and bait costs for the day of the survey?

The last, and always frustrating part of all of this are the time frames involved. Even if everything were to go perfectly, the timeline laid out last night showed almost another 2 years before any of these changes could be implemented. That may very well be too late for some to survive.

Sorry for the long rant but this is a very complex subject, and my ideas are conflicted by the fact that I have participated in this sport for over 60 years from both the recreational and for-hire side of the fence.

OK, I have got my helmet on...let the salvos fly!!!