boating Safety education requirement

[Roccus7]

no - that's something you learn with practice - just like knowing how to react to a slide during a snow storm in your car - are you suggesting that we should remove drivers tests & permit classes from motor vehicle operation

Absolutely not, to get a driver's license you have to pass a test to get a permit and then in most states, log hours with a licensed driver before you can get fully licensed. Regardless, you have to take a behind the wheel driver's test so you have to spend time behind the wheel to get licensed, just like a pilot's license.

In Suffolk County, and some states, any Jo-Jo can take a "theoretical" course and then think he's ready to cross the Atlantic in his 18' boat. They have no idea how many things they have yet to learn like you can't always trust your GPS and/or channel markers to have the correct depth. Far too many of the dangerous aspects of boating depend on experience and a false sense of security that some on-line course may provide, might actually be more dangerous than no course, e.g. "I took that course so now I'm ready to boat safely" vs. "Hmmmm, I don't know much about boating, maybe I'd better get Paulie to take me out a few times and let me handle the boat so I can learn."

It may be better than nothing, but it's sure no panacea since the people who need experience the most, are likely the ones who think they know at all by passing the test.

I never boat on weekends and instead use my kayak, primarily in waters that are speed regulated and too shallow for boats (although I love seeing a Bayliner try to race up to me in the marshes, where my paddle is hitting bottom, lol.)

How come it's always Bayliners and Centurys??? There was a classic "How Not To Anchor and Raft Up" video taken at the Sore Thumb years ago, showing a raft of like 15 Bayliners and Centuries breaking apart in the current. The sound track was hysterical with many "Oh GAWDs!!!". I don't think I ever laughed so hard in my life.

Bayliners, Centurys and PWCs - Prime reasons why we should be able to mount and deploy homing torpedoes when witnessing Stupid Human Boating Tricks...

 

[Avenger]

But - ask yourself if that accident at the fireworks show a few years back that cost those kids their lives might have been prevented if the dipshit who owned that boat had been put through a basic course that pointed out several times that you can't exceed the load capacity of the boat and that all passengers must be wearing life vests.

That was one of the incidents that caused our current boater certification law. The other was a guy that hit a boat on the GSB near Captree at 5:00am obliterated drunk doing something like 60 MPH in the dark.

Neither of these incidents would have been prevented by a safety course. The drunk had 20 plus years of boating experience and that didn't prevent him from doing something gawdawffuly stupid. A boat the size of the Silverton that capsized doesn't have a capacity plate and they had more than enough PFDs for all the people aboard. Putting 32 people on it was just gawdawfully stupid. And BTW, wearing life vests is not a requirement. In fact the fatalities were in the cabin where a PFD is usually a huge hinderance to escape.

But now we suddenly have to rush a poorly thought-out, ineffective law with some dead kid's name on it so a couple of politicians can preen themselves in the newspapers about what they're "doing" for us. This will accomplish nothing except to add the burden of more regulations and opportunities for the gov't and attorneys to make a buck.

Don't think that I'm opposed to education. I think the safety course is a worthwhile effort. I've taken a couple, my wife has her card, and my son is finally old enough and he will be taking his soon. But the reality of life is that Common Sense is an oxymoron, and a six hour class isn't going to fix that.

Also, I see that licensing people to drive cars has eliminated accidents.

 

[pequa1]

The other thread said Brianna's law passed. ( ? )

 

[Capt13]

It was passed by the NY state senate .....

 

[Capt13]

For all the examples listed above I am sure there are hundreds of close calls that never makes the news. The ones where uneducated boaters got themselves into serious, life threatening situations, and are luckily rescued by other boaters or the coast guard. I am sorry, but saying boater safety education is not going to change anything is a very close minded opinion.

When I was a young teen, our neighbors bought a boat. They had no prior boating experience. Heading back in from the first trip they had no Idea what the buoys were there for. They hit a rock coming into huntington harbor. Boat was wood, no flotation and sank. Husband, wife, 3 young kids ended up in the water. Luckily, other boaters were there to help immediately. A mandatory boater education course would have prevented that. It needs to be mandatory to save those who don't have enough common sense to realize that boater education necessary.

 

[wader]

Absolutely not, to get a driver's license you have to pass a test to get a permit and then in most states, log hours with a licensed driver before you can get fully licensed. Regardless, you have to take a behind the wheel driver's test so you have to spend time behind the wheel to get licensed, just like a pilot's license.

In Suffolk County, and some states, any Jo-Jo can take a "theoretical" course and then think he's ready to cross the Atlantic in his 18' boat. They have no idea how many things they have yet to learn like you can't always trust your GPS and/or channel markers to have the correct depth. Far too many of the dangerous aspects of boating depend on experience and a false sense of security that some on-line course may provide, might actually be more dangerous than no course, e.g. "I took that course so now I'm ready to boat safely" vs. "Hmmmm, I don't know much about boating, maybe I'd better get Paulie to take me out a few times and let me handle the boat so I can learn."

It may be better than nothing, but it's sure no panacea since the people who need experience the most, are likely the ones who think they know at all by passing the test.

Again - things you learn by doing. Just as in a motor vehicle for which you need to take written & physical tests in irder to operate.

No one is disputing that this saves all. But as a basic concept - it is sound.

 

[poorrichard]

I am an instructor for the N.Y. State safe boating program. Let me clear up a few things that were in the comments above.
The Suffolk County Law from a few years back was in direct response to the tragedy in Oyster Bay. Not the Captree accident.

Steve Stern was a Suffolk County Legislator and wrote the bill. Yes, the bill had flaws. I spoke at the Legislative "debate" when the bill was being discussed. There were many speakers-myself included-that asked for changes to the law. The law was passed and then over-ridden by NY State

Roccus is correct. When learning to drive a car, you study, pass a written test, practice driving, then get a license. The boating safety class is the first step in boating safety.

I can't teach, boat handling, how a boat reacts in certain situations and more important Common Sense when operating a boat.

I can teach, navigation, rules of the road, safety requirements, required safety equipment, Boating While Intoxicated ect.
The NY State Class is 15 chapters of material.

Most Insurance Companies offer an insurance price reduction for completion of a class

One more thing: The NY Boating Safety Certificate is good for a lifetime. There is no renewal required. You take the class once!

 

[pequa1]

Best course I ever took was the USCGA in 1977. It was multiple nights and even included tying knots and navigating off the compass rose. 15 or 20 years later I took the Nassau county police course, two Saturday mornings. It was way too easy, geared towards the kids that wanted to drive those dopey ski-doos. I did get a plasticized card out of it which is nicer than having to carry around the certificates from either the USCGA or the other one I took online about five years ago. However, I will say again that the two later courses still had good reminder items, to include horn signals.

 

[poorrichard]

Pequa-When I teach Rules of the Road, Sound Signals are covered in depth. The average boater has no idea that five short blasts are the DANGER signal. Three short means the engines are in reverse ect. Most seasoned boaters don't know stand on or give way vessels. Boating Safety Classes aren't a "cure all". However they do provide basic boating knowledge on boat operation. They are also a good refresher for the seasoned boater.

I am teaching three classes in Suffolk County in June. If anyone would like class times and locations please message me.

 

[Pete21]

So if you have a boat do you have to take the class ???

 

[pequa1]

So if you have a boat do you have to take the class ???

That is the intent of the bill. Law probably effective January 1. Poorrichard, what percentage of boat owners do u think have never taken a course?

 

[Avenger]

The Suffolk County Law from a few years back was in direct response to the tragedy in Oyster Bay. Not the Captree accident.

So Suffolk County passed a law because of an incident that happened in Nassau County? When it was being talked about they most certainly did bring up the Captree accident. In fact had it not been for the misfortune of the two incidents occurring so close together it's unlikely that they would have rushed out a cr@p piece of legislation to address this "crisis" in boating accidents. I notice they didn't put a dead kid's name on the law in Suffolk.

The boating safety class is the first step in boating safety.

This is my concern. What's the next step? Because this isn't going to do fugall. The kids would still be dead because you don't teach stability, bouancy and center of gravity in these classes. You can't. It's way too involved for a class like that. And then there will be more regulations and requirements. I know Schumer was pushing for capacity plates on larger boats as a result of this. Fortunately so far that's gone nowhere. As Roccus and I said earlier, we license car drivers. They have to pass written and practical tests and yet most of them are lucky they know what the pedals do and they still don't have the sense to get TF out of the passing lane.

The NY State Class is 15 chapters of material.

So is my CG Aux class still good, or do I have to sit through this stuff again so I can have an approved document that I can be ticketed for not having in my possession and probably have my voyage terminated as "unsafe" because there's no qualified operator aboard? Then what, boat gets impounded or I have to call for a non-emergency tow?

One more thing: The NY Boating Safety Certificate is good for a lifetime. There is no renewal required. You take the class once!

For now. The problem with any of these things is they inevitably grow. Government can't leave well enough alone. Consider the fact that NY already has a law that is phasing-in this requirement. But that wasn't good enough, some politician wants a photo-op with a grieving parent. Eventually it will be like the defensive driving class and only good for a few years and you'll have to burn another day to sit through 1+1=2 so you can get your discount and continue to operate your boat.

I learned to operate a boat at "my Daddy's knee" as they say. From the time I was probably seven or eight years old I was gradually introduced to boat handling, the rules of the road etc. If you're going to learn how to operate a boat properly the best way is to be taught hands-on by a skilled operator. But, you know, unintended consequences, all of these laws have made it illegal for me to do the same for my kid. Thanks politicians, for saving us from experienced operators. I'll stick to freedom, thanks.

 

[poorrichard]

Pequa-1: It is a hard questions to answer on percentage of people that have taken a Safe Boating Class. I have been teaching this class for about 15 years. I would say about 50% of boaters have taken a class. This is skewed to the higher side because if you are a boater who wants to operate a Jet Ski-you have to take a safe boating class to operate the Jet Ski. There is a fair amount of crossover between boaters and PWC-Jet Ski operators. Jet Ski operators buy boats when they get older so there is a lot of crossover

I also get many people who took a class years ago and cant find or lost the safe boating certificate. Some people also like to take a refresher course since things have changed since they took a class.

Hope this reply was helpful

 

[poorrichard]

Avenger Steve Stern the Suffolk County Legislator who wrote the Suffolk Law represented the Huntington-Cold Spring Harbor area. Oyster Bay and Cold Spring Harbor are "connected". Yes it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction to a tragedy in his backyard. The Captree accident just help call more attention to boating safety. Thus the Captree accident called attention to the proposed Suffolk Legislation and helped to get the law passed.

Until the law is passed. It is impossible to predict if people who have already taken a class are grandfathered in. They were under the old Suffolk Legislation


For all of you who are concerned about Brianna's Law and how it could effect you.

Contact your NY State Senator or NY State Assemblyman's office and make your feelings known. They can also provide information and answer questions regarding this legislation