breakerwall tog jig stick

[tautog18]

Hi Everyone...seeing what opinions you might have on a spinning rod jig stick for very sticky areas. I fish breaker walls quite a bit and they can be particularly challenging. I have tried many different rods and styles, from long 7’6”to very short 5’8”. I actually got my biggest with this style (8.5lbs) on the short stick, it is a tsunami sapphire m 12-25. pretty interesting little rod.
The issue is when the bite gets soft, you don’t have the feel that can sometimes be the difference from a slow day to a great one, which led me to start trying other rods, slimwaves, harrier, proteus...etc. I notice that with the shorter rod, I definitely have more initial lifting power.

thanks for any opinions-Joe

 

[chunkster]

You're looking for a rod with bite detection. There's quite a few of them.
Where the first 6" has a limber tip and from there on the rod becomes RIGID.
You can use this as a description and added sensitivity is weight. These
rods are not cheap. They are rather expensive but well worth the money.
You get what you pay for. GOOD LUCK!

 

[Leprechaun]

So I've read your ask and I'm not sure if you're fishing from the wall/jetty or a boat. In any case a short rod will ALWAYS give you more leverage than a longer one - I cannot see the point in giving the fish more rod to work against you than is needed to properly present your bait.

If you're fishing from a small boat, standing on a deck that's fairly close to the water, you can employ a shorter rod - and keep the "rod length mechanical advantage" in your favor. If you're up on the jetty, or maybe on a tall party boat, then a longer rod would be called for - in the case of the jetty, to get you bait out there on a cast, and then steer the fish away from any rocks that can complicate the landing of your fish. And in the case of use aboard a head boat, a longer stick would be better suited to underhand flipping your rig out and away from who knows how many other lines. Plus a longer rod in this application will help steer your hooked fish around other angler's lines. So in that instance, longer is better-er.

Now in my case I have gone thru literally dozens of different blackfish (and fluke) rods over the course of the 50+ years I've chased both species, with a good 95% of that fishing from a small boat. Upon reflection, the "best for me" blackfish rods I've used all seem to be sub-6'6" long. In fact my current "fav" is only 5'8" long - that being a Jigging World Ghost Hunter 300-gram slow pitch stick. A tremendous piece for the overall parameters of the when/where/how of the tog fishing that I do.

I have also found that my new-to-me-this-season 6' Shimano Grappler Type J ML spinner is without a doubt the single best spinner I've ever used for the deep fluke jigging that I prefer to do. I was so enamored of it this Summer that I couldn't seem to put it down. I found myself using it about 80% of the time, fishing deep this past season. What a great, sensitive, powerful, well-built piece it is. I am VERY impressed!

The way that little Grappler put the wood to a 6' brown shark this past September was truly impressive. Its short length allowed me to exert a ton of pressure, and even after the fairly intense battle, my wrists were not aching in any way. Now work on that same fish with an 8' spinner, trying to short-stroke a big fish like that straight up and down from 80', and I'm sure one's wrists would take considerably more abuse. Like I said, its all about the leverage.

So that's two new-ish personal favs of mine that do not exceed 6'.

I actually don't know if I've helped you, but that's my thinking on the subject, anyway. If you want a specific rod recommendation - just know that its very tough making such calls, as rod type/length/actions are so very subjective, or perhaps better put, they are specific to what the user feels is "best" for his needs.

I do love the two rods that I've already mentioned - so there's that. . . .

 

[tautog18]

Chunkster and Lep, thanks for the response, definitely helping me in the right direction.
For more info.... I have an older 18’ hydrosport that I fish from, and we get tight to the walls and throw a sacrificial anchor like rebar or a 2x4 into them while the main anchor is off the bow. the back of the boat can be 10-12’ deep, while the front can be 20’-25’ with deep rocky holes. The magic spot is usually in the middle of the boat where the ledge just starts to flatten out. When you hook into a fish it is all about putting the heat to them as fast as possible. I usually fish 40lb test and leader and 5/8 -3/4 oz jigs.
I have found it to be a fun challenge to find the perfect rod for this situation, the balance of power and finess!
The short rod i mentioned was my first jig stick when I started with the spinning rods 4 years ago. Before that I really didn’t fish jigs and then realized what i was missing! I then experimented with different rods in the 7’-7’6”range. I did find the bite detection was better with these rods, which I like for when the bite gets scratchy, but felt I lacked the pulling power of that short stick. Also listening to others who believed the long rod helped “pull them out of the rocks faster”. After fishing with that theory, it works on smaller fish as you have more rod to move the fish, but once they get 5plus lbs, you lose the leverage and that fish is not going anywhere. plus it definitely tired me out faster in the beginning of the season when you are catching tons of shorts/porgies and sea bass mixed in.
In my quest for figuring this out, I took out my rods and got up on the ladder to dead lift 8lbs, and then 10lbs with one hand in the hook set position. This experiment confirmed exactly what you stated Lep, I could move the weight with ease and farther with the shorter rods, and in general it got progressively harder as they got longer. Rods tested included tsunami trophy slow pitch, 7’ harrier mh, shimano ml trevala, diawa proteus inshore 7’6”mh, jigging world nexus.
I think with that experience and hearing your opinions, I am leaning to a shorter rod for this application.
So I think what I am looking for is a short 6’< rod, with good bite detection/tip action and serious backbone after. Sounds like that ghost hunter might be worth a serious look. Do you think the grappler would also work in this application? Also open to anything else that comes to mind!


thanks-Joe

 

[Leprechaun]

So my Ghost Hunter is not a spinner. What I would look at is something in the Shimano Grappler Type J line. Either a 6’6” or the shorter 6’ length in “M” power would fit your criteria. These rods are “special.”

 

[tautog18]

Sounds good, I will check out the grappler. One of the shops I go to carries them....seems like a good fit.

 

[Leprechaun]

This is the model I would look at:

Shimano Grappler Type J GRPJS60M

 

[Leprechaun]

BTW, I’ve been using my new Black Hole Charter Special 6’8” spinner to “jig” tog with very good results, so far. Next trip I’m taking my 6’ Grappler Type J ML with me. Let’s push that stick a bit and see how it performs.

 

[tautog18]

yes that is the one I am going to take a look at. How do you think they compare to the trevala s? I have the ML and really haven't given it fair time on the tog grounds. Also just got a jigging world nexus 7' mh which is a great rod, but last trip out it was a very light bite and switched to a lighter rod which made a difference in hooking into a few 5lbers for the day. It seems like every year the bite is aggressive in October, then they really just lay on for the most part as the year goes on, even the larger fish. I am finding that detecting those subtle hits are key. If I don't get my hands on a grappler for this year, I am going out with the trevala, and also the 6' tsunami slow pitch for an experiment and see what happens. Both rods have lifted the 10lbs in the backyard and survived!

 

[tautog18]

I like the idea of pushing these short powerful rods...less stress to angler, means more pressure to the fish

 

[Leprechaun]

I think the Trevala S in the ML power is too lite for your app. Even the M would be marginal. How will you stop a biggie from heading back to his favorite rocky hole? I like fishing lighter tackle as much as the next guy, but not if its gonna break my heart.

I'm not saying that it can't be done with a very light setup - because it certainly can. Just this week I fished with Capt. Mike on his charter boat "The Captain's Table." Also aboard was Chef Nader Gebril - who fished with a teeny-tiny spinning setup so freakin' light, it would be more at home on an upstate trout stream. Yet he was high hook, out fishing BOTH Mike and I, with him landing a good amount of big tog to 8.75lb - along with several in the 6lb class on top of that biggie. Hey, what can I say? It happens. No one can be the King EVERY day, right?

So it can be done with uber-light tackle - with some luck, of course. But to me that is "stunt fishing," and not something that I'm all that interested in emulating - or recommending. So, in my opinion, if you are going with a Trevala S, then look at the MH.

Scout around, as there are deals to be had on the S series. Just this past Spring I was in Jigging World (an AWESOME place to visit, by the way!) and they were offering a good selection of the S series at 20% off. You almost never see that on Shimano rods. I suppose that it was because that series was being discontinued by Shimano, who now feature the brandy-new Trevala PX series - which I have not as yet seen.

Keep in mind that an ML in one rod series does not necessarily match up with an ML in another line of rods - even from the same manufacturer. Each rod series is unique and has to be evaluated as such.

The PX rods, like the older S series, are said to run approx $150-175, in that neighborhood, anyway. The Grapplers are a step up, in blank technology as well as the guide set they carry. Expect to pay another Hundie for a Grappler over a PX.

Thinking about your prior posts, perhaps the Grappler Type J ML would be OK for your type of fishing. When you do get to look at them, compare the ML and M, before making a final decision. The nice thing about the ML is that it can double as an awesome ocean fluke jigger - especially so if you need to cast about the boat on those slow-drift days. It excels at that type of use. I can say that from my own hands-on experience.

 

[tautog18]

Thanks Lep....I will definitely be looking at those grappler rods before I pull the trigger on anything, sounds like from your experience they are worth the investment. Definitely want to push the line of “light tackle” for the bites, but not to heartbreaker status?. Would love to hear your report on what you think of the ml if you decide to take it out for a little blackfish jigging ?

 

[Snapprhead27]

Thinking about your prior posts, perhaps the Grappler Type J ML would be OK for your type of fishing. When you do get to look at them, compare the ML and M, before making a final decision. The nice thing about the ML is that it can double as an awesome ocean fluke jigger - doubly so if you need to cast about the boat on those slow-drift days. It excels at that type of use. I can say that from my own hands-on experience.

I like that it doubles as a good casting rod on the slow days. Christmas is coming ?

 

[Snapprhead27]

. Also just got a jigging world nexus 7' mh

I bought this one, this past summer to use for fluke. I was going to test it out this past Saturday on the Tog trip but I never got around to putting backing on the baitcaster. First time with a baitcaster set up and I was unaware that I needed to put a mono backing if using braid.

 

[Leprechaun]

SH27 - Also give the spool center a few turns of electrician's black tape. I prefer 3M #33 - because its the best out there in that its very water-resistant, it sticks where you put it, and the glue doesn't schmear all over everything if it gets a bit heated in the sun. The reasons for the tape are that it will protect the spool hub from corrosion and it will give your mono backing something to "bite into," adding anti-slip protection.

I will be leaving my BH Charter Special home the next few tog trips - the Grappler ML is coming along in its place. I will give it a fair assessment, assuming I get the proper conditions to use the relatively light jigs (light for MY area of operations, at least). We shall see how it does in an app much more demanding that reeling fluke to the boat. Obviously, big-a$$ blackfish are a whole 'nother thing!

 

[Snapprhead27]

SH27 - Also give the spool center a few turns of electrician's black tape. I prefer 3M #33 - because its the best out there in that its very water-resistant, it sticks where you put it, and the glue doesn't schmear all over everything if it gets a bit heated in the sun. The reasons for the tape are that it will protect the spool hub from corrosion and it will give your mono backing something to "bite into," adding anti-slip protection.

I will be leaving my BH Charter Special home the next few tog trips - the Grappler ML is coming along in its place. I will give it a fair assessment, assuming I get the proper conditions to use the relatively light jigs (light for MY area of operations, at least). We shall see how it does in an app much more demanding that reeling fluke to the boat. Obviously, big-a$$ blackfish are a whole 'nother thing!

Will do, thanks for the tip. Never knew about that. So tape, mono, braid ?? Sounds like a trip to HD is in order lol

 

[yourinmyspot]

Challenger bank 731M is still my go to. Deep or shallow its got plenty of pulling power and bite detection. I wouldn't hesitate dropping down by a breakwall with it and a reel with the drag buttoned up.

 

[Togilator]

I like the idea of pushing these short powerful rods...less stress to angler, means more pressure to the fish

For a short rod look at the Daiwa Proteus SS series which are 6"4" and super thin and sensative.Theres 3 rods in the spinning series in power levels L, ML, M.I own them all and actually use the L to screw around with which is toy and way to light,but I have caught tog to 11 lbs on the jigs with it.The ML has a lot of backend power and the tip is still light and sensative THIS IS THE ONE TO LOOK AT and would be a good choice.Ive caught a ton of good tog on the ML which in my opinion has more then enough power for your inshore tog fishing applications.The M has a lot more power but the tip is too hard to detect the lite bites.The proteus SS series is less moderate then the Trevala S rods when u compare them.Theres a lot of technique in catching big tog with light spinning rods.By having the tip in the water with a short 6'4" rod and a hard high stick swing on the hookset followed by a rapid turn of the reel as you lower the rod you can move a big tog 25 plus feet before he knows what hit him.Hopefully you can get another set of cranks on the next upswing before the tog makes a run and hopefully never makes it back to the structure.They are really nice rods for the money and well worth a look.

 

[tautog18]

Great options from everyone. Will have to make a trip out to jigging world this winter, it is about an hour and a half from my house.
Togilator, I have the ml proteus in conventional style, and I do believe it has the guts for the situation. I haven’t used it much as I found for whatever reason, I do much better jigging with the spinner so might have to keep an eye out for that spinning rod. I think is has to do with the line being below the blank. Another idea i was thinking of is trying a spiral wrapped rod with a small baitcaster
Also that is the hookup and battle that you described is exactly how I picture it. ?

 

[Snapprhead27]

- the Grappler ML is coming along in its place. I will give it a fair assessment, assuming I get the proper conditions to use the relatively light jigs (light for MY area of operations, at least). We shall see how it does in an app much more demanding that reeling fluke to the boat. Obviously, big-a$$ blackfish are a whole 'nother thing!

Did you use it on your last outing?