Caring for your Catch p1: on the water

[Aquarius]

I've read they are protected up in MA, but I wouldn't be sad if they are regulated in NY/NJ as well. I did a sundial catch/cook couple years ago...it was honestly one of the most delicious fish I've had locally, both raw and cooked. But I've heard stories of the bucket brigade stacking them up in NJ, which is a travesty.

This link is to the NOAA Federal Regs. If you read down, there is no retention of "Windowpane Flounder" in federal waters. There is nothing on the NYS DEC website about any restriction for Sundial (Windowpane Flounder) in NYS waters. Federal waters are beyond the 3 mile (cannon ball) line.

NOAA Federal Regs

Personally, I have not caught a sundial in a while. Years ago, I remember catching them frequently in the bay and ocean.

Another forgotten fish in our area. "4 Spot Flounder". They look very similar to our Fluke. They have a different looking tail, larger eyes and the distinctive 4 spots on the dark side. I caught several of them a few years ago. There is no limit on them. I didn't keep any since I figured the average DEC enforcement guy would think they were summer flounder and fine me. I read that they are good eating but have little market value as they are kind of small and thin. I do have some pictures and I will post if I can manage to find them.

 

[crabby]

This link is to the NOAA Federal Regs. If you read down, there is no retention of "Windowpane Flounder" in federal waters. There is nothing on the NYS DEC website about any restriction for Sundial (Windowpane Flounder) in NYS waters. Federal waters are beyond the 3 mile (cannon ball) line.

NOAA Federal Regs

Personally, I have not caught a sundial in a while. Years ago, I remember catching them frequently in the bay and ocean.

Another forgotten fish in our area. "4 Spot Flounder". They look very similar to our Fluke. They have a different looking tail, larger eyes and the distinctive 4 spots on the dark side. I caught several of them a few years ago. There is no limit on them. I didn't keep any since I figured the average DEC enforcement guy would think they were summer flounder and fine me. I read that they are good eating but have little market value as they are kind of small and thin. I do have some pictures and I will post if I can manage to find them.

That must be where i saw the restriction on sundails.

I catch a couple of four spot each year, but I don't keep them for the same reason. Plus they are usually on the small side.

 

[Aquarius]

I don't want to take this thread off track. I just want to follow up on my previous comment about 4 spot flounder and sundials. I finally found the pictures I was looking for. Just wondering if anyone has tried to eat a 4 spot. From what I read on line they are on par taste wise with other flatfishes, just kind of small. This specimen was about 12 inches.

The second picture is of the more familiar Sundial (Windowpane Flounder).

 

[captmike28]

Hi Buddha,
Glad to have your expertise on the board. Although I have been catching and cooking my own fish for nearly 60 years, I am not a professional and am always happy to learn something new.
Actually I have a question for you about storage on board, bleeding and cooking.

I have always been a fanatic about using huge volumes of ice to carefully and consistently chill my catch. Like others have mentioned I also put a layer in the bottom of the fish box at the start of a trip, leave the drain open so the fish don't sit in water, and add more ice several times during the day just to keep the temperature really low. I even do this in the early spring and late fall, which surprises some of my customers. Regardless of the season both my customers and myself find this goes a long way to really keeping the catch in tip top shape when it hits the table.

Regarding bleeding, I know many say that all species should be bled but I find that if I bleed a fish like Fluke, Stiped Bass, or Cod it seems to remove more moisture from the filet than I would like. What also brings me to this conclusion is that when I bleed these species (and even Tog) I find I have to shorten my cooking time or risk drying out the final product on the plate.

One of my customers is, like yourself, a professional chef with a very famous restaurant here on LI and a great reputation. I have tasted his dishes and I must say he is very accomplished. He tends to agree with me regarding my view on bleeding. Maybe I am not as careful as you when it comes to the actual bleeding process but I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.
Thanks,
Capt. Mike

 

[buddha162]

Hi Buddha,
Glad to have your expertise on the board. Although I have been catching and cooking my own fish for nearly 60 years, I am not a professional and am always happy to learn something new.
Actually I have a question for you about storage on board, bleeding and cooking.

I have always been a fanatic about using huge volumes of ice to carefully and consistently chill my catch. Like others have mentioned I also put a layer in the bottom of the fish box at the start of a trip, leave the drain open so the fish don't sit in water, and add more ice several times during the day just to keep the temperature really low. I even do this in the early spring and late fall, which surprises some of my customers. Regardless of the season both my customers and myself find this goes a long way to really keeping the catch in tip top shape when it hits the table.

Regarding bleeding, I know many say that all species should be bled but I find that if I bleed a fish like Fluke, Stiped Bass, or Cod it seems to remove more moisture from the filet than I would like. What also brings me to this conclusion is that when I bleed these species (and even Tog) I find I have to shorten my cooking time or risk drying out the final product on the plate.

One of my customers is, like yourself, a professional chef with a very famous restaurant here on LI and a great reputation. I have tasted his dishes and I must say he is very accomplished. He tends to agree with me regarding my view on bleeding. Maybe I am not as careful as you when it comes to the actual bleeding process but I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.
Thanks,
Capt. Mike

Your icing down process sounds awesome, and I hope your customers appreciate it! I fish from a kayak...so space/weight is limited, otherwise I would make ice more of a priority. It is certainly extremely important in determining the quality of your final product, regardless of species.

As for bleeding "drying out" your fish...I must admit that's the first I've heard of this. The short answer is, overcooking dries out fish (and everything else), and if you do indeed find that bleeding necessitates shorter cooking times...then don't cook them too long

But all jokes aside, a piece of fish is cooked until it's just done. Meaning, there is no standard "cooking time," even accounting for size/dimension of the fish. The window can differ between 2 identical fillets off the same species of fish. For a thin piece of fluke fillet, 15 seconds is a life time. For cod, you might have upwards of a minute and still fall within an acceptable window. Salmon is even more generous. And as you know, things like breading, or cooking fish on the bone, can really widen that window if you want a longer cooking time to develop deeper flavors.

 

[captmike28]

Thanks for your feedback, Buddha. I am thinking that my own attempts at properly bleeding fish may have "short changed" the process and benefit as I do not use a separate pail/box filled with clean seawater to use this method of preparation prior to filet and cooking. Perhaps that is an area where I can improve my technique as per your instructions.

Regarding timing you are, of course, 100% correct. Timing is so critical with a delicate resource like fresh fish although it is also true that some species are a little more forgiving than others. There is also no doubt that while I may have my timing pretty well worked out at home, whenever I visit a friends home and bring some fish it is often crapshoot since no 2 ovens are alike.

Just an amusing anecdote here. Although my wife is an outstanding cook on almost every front, she defers to me when it comes to preparing our fish dinners. She has watched me for years carefully monitoring the oven with a stopwatch to make sure every pieces is as close to perfectly cooked as possible!

 

[buddha162]

Thanks for your feedback, Buddha. I am thinking that my own attempts at properly bleeding fish may have "short changed" the process and benefit as I do not use a separate pail/box filled with clean seawater to use this method of preparation prior to filet and cooking. Perhaps that is an area where I can improve my technique as per your instructions.

Regarding timing you are, of course, 100% correct. Timing is so critical with a delicate resource like fresh fish although it is also true that some species are a little more forgiving than others. There is also no doubt that while I may have my timing pretty well worked out at home, whenever I visit a friends home and bring some fish it is often crapshoot since no 2 ovens are alike.

Just an amusing anecdote here. Although my wife is an outstanding cook on almost every front, she defers to me when it comes to preparing our fish dinners. She has watched me for years carefully monitoring the oven with a stopwatch to make sure every pieces is as close to perfectly cooked as possible!

There's a reason the fish station is considered one of the most difficult posts to hold down in a pro kitchen: a few seconds can mean the difference between raw - perfectly cooked - and garbage!

I would strongly suggest investing in a quality meat thermometer, not just for fish, but for everything you cook. It takes all the guess work out of it, and you're not estimating based on time and oven temps, but instead you are directly measuring the doneness of the item you're cooking.

Thermapens are the gold standard, and for fish, I highly recommend them: Thermapen Mk4 Instant-read Thermometer for meat & more

But any meat thermometer, once calibrated, will do the job. I have a couple of these lying around, and they work great...as long as I remember to zero them every once in awhile: https://amzn.to/2Sc9yLD

 

[captmike28]

Thanks very much. I will look into purchasing the Thermapen. You are absolutely correct that exact time and internal temperature are the key to perfectly prepared meals. Having an accurate thermometer would certainly take the guesswork out of timing when working in a kitchen other than our own.

 

[Avenger]

Wow, this is great information. Maybe not bleeding the catch is why I don't like fish.

We've been attempting it with Bluefish to try to counter the strong taste, but maybe we'll try it with other things now too. Hopefully the people we give fish will appreciate it.

I'd love to see some more videos of techniques for different types of fish.

The info on icing is really helpful too. We know to keep freshwater off it, but we could be doing better.

Great thread. Thanks.

 

[missberylcharters]

Wow, this is great information. Maybe not bleeding the catch is why I don't like fish.

We've been attempting it with Bluefish to try to counter the strong taste, but maybe we'll try it with other things now too. Hopefully the people we give fish will appreciate it.

I'd love to see some more videos of techniques for different types of fish.

The info on icing is really helpful too. We know to keep freshwater off it, but we could be doing better.

Great thread. Thanks.

First of all, the 4 spot flounders are outstanding eating !! To me the meat is sweeter tasting than our winter flounder. Definitely save the larger ones for the table, you can thank me later. With regard to icing the catch, what we are doing is using the "ARTIC ICE" product. We use the "Chillin Brew"
packs. I have a whole bunch of these we use them over and over again. Since I don't have an ice machine, I find the pay for themselves pretty fast after the initial hit on the purchase. I line the bottom of the cooler with the large size packs. When we start catching keepers, we put 2-3 inches of salt water in there otherwise the fish will actually freeze solid. Normally we also have some ice to mix in at well. Definite yes to bleeding out fluke and tog. We are pretty fanatical about sending the guys home with the best possible product and we make sure that they have ice if they need to transport the catch home. We received positive feedback from many of our customers on how do things and the quality of the catch.

 

[PropellerJohnII]

similar take on Miss Beryl charters. have always bled blues and stripers. just rip their gills with your strong fingers and put in a bleeding pail or barrel of sea water. when they stop thrashing and pretty much done, time to put them in cooler with ice. when weather very warm or hot I use pre frozen gatorade bottles to chill bleeding pail of sea water.( I reuse the same gatorade bottles year round as needed) instead of ice, i use gallon plastic containers in my igloo. saves me a lot of money not buying ice. same with fluke and sea bass. the fillets come out snow white on fluke and sea bass. do it with cod too but water in bleeding pail always cold. mates long ago also told me putting live fish directly on ice allows them to thrash furiously and hemmorhage their flesh. especially fluke. i will even bleed big porgies for my sisters only. big difference in the fillets. My family and friends always thank me for the freshest fish they have seen. I am totally OCD on this. That's just me. CIAO, John.
BTW, for those of u faint of heart to ripping the gills with your bare hands, a quick snip of the gills with crab shears or a knife is all that's needed.

 

[captmike28]

Some very interesting ideas and approaches to keeping our treasured catch in the best shape possible. I know that large volumes of ice can get pricey, but personally I was always concerned about the temperature in your fish box being somewhat uneven when using reusable frozen bottles. That's why I prefer to line the bottom of the box with ice to start the day, keep the drain open, and then add additional quantities of ice throughout the day. All of my fish are nearly surrounded with ice to keep the temps as low as possible.
However, I am intrigued by Capt. Rick's method of lining the box bottom with the "Artic Ice" product then add a little salt water and additional ice as needed. I will have to give this a try this season as it could save me a some ice in the long run. Thanks, guys.

 

[pequa1]

I think my following question/situation is still on track with the thread.
while kayaking, I usually return home fairly quickly with a keeper, or blue (which lately is a fairly rare event in the first place) and they are still alive.
If my buddy and I boat a keeper, we put it in our livewells and change the water often. We rarely have a large cooler aboard and rarely use live bait. If we do, its usually a few snappers kept in several spackle buckets anyway. (We stink at throwing a cast net!) Anyway, most of the fluke we do take home are still alive in the driveway.
The bluefish are dead before we even get back to the ramp but we usually bake or barbecue those blues that same night anyway.
Although both families have never complained about the dinners, is there a difference in taste between a fluke killed right after being caught and iced, and a fluke kept alive in the livewells until killed on the cutting board ?

 

[PropellerJohnII]

I think my following question/situation is still on track with the thread.
while kayaking, I usually return home fairly quickly with a keeper, or blue (which lately is a fairly rare event in the first place) and they are still alive.
If my buddy and I boat a keeper, we put it in our livewells and change the water often. We rarely have a large cooler aboard and rarely use live bait. If we do, its usually a few snappers kept in several spackle buckets anyway. (We stink at throwing a cast net!) Anyway, most of the fluke we do take home are still alive in the driveway.
The bluefish are dead before we even get back to the ramp but we usually bake or barbecue those blues that same night anyway.
Although both families have never complained about the dinners, is there a difference in taste between a fluke killed right after being caught and iced, and a fluke kept alive in the livewells until killed on the cutting board ?

According to a friend with a boat with live well, your fish kept in livewell and then filleted is best of all possibilities.But he says especially for fluke.

 

[missberylcharters]

Some very interesting ideas and approaches to keeping our treasured catch in the best shape possible. I know that large volumes of ice can get pricey, but personally I was always concerned about the temperature in your fish box being somewhat uneven when using reusable frozen bottles. That's why I prefer to line the bottom of the box with ice to start the day, keep the drain open, and then add additional quantities of ice throughout the day. All of my fish are nearly surrounded with ice to keep the temps as low as possible.
However, I am intrigued by Capt. Rick's method of lining the box bottom with the "Artic Ice" product then add a little salt water and additional ice as needed. I will have to give this a try this season as it could save me a some ice in the long run. Thanks, guys.

Mike, You will like using the Artic Ice. We also have 2 other coolers for the customers use in the cabin on big and small, and we use the Artic ice for those with no additional ice. This saves us clean up times with no cleaning out of the melted water makes life much easier. Only thing is you wont like the price but they last a long time as long as no one pops a hole in it with a fish pic or knife (don't ask how I know this).

 

[captmike28]

Rick, I checked out the Artic Ice website and it does look like a nice product. I am assuming the internal formula is superior to the stuff found in your average "Igloo" style refreeze packs. I am also guessing the outer shell is pretty tough and can withstand fins and teeth. No need to ask about careless folks and their sharp toys!
I also like the suggestion about using this product alone for the food/drink coolers. Anything that can reduce my clean up time after a trip is a big plus.
Thanks again.

 

[Chinacat]

My issue with icing is space and $$$ constraints. Filling a cooler with ice every time out just isn't practical as it decks up the limited space on my deck and the cost adds up. I have in deck fish boxes with a pump to discharge. Once keepers come on board I fill the box with ocean water and bleed the fish in there. I'll then regularly refill the box using as many 5 gallon buckets of water as needed to "flush" the bloody water. Before heading back in I'll pump the box out and refill with clean water. Then I fill a bucket to use as a saltwater rinse off at the fillet table. When ready to eat, they get a final rinse of fresh water as part of the cooking prep. For me, the system works. I've never done a side by side taste test so I couldn't say how it is compared to fully iced down. We enjoy all our fresh fish meals and so far, haven't gotten sick

 

[missberylcharters]

Rick, I checked out the Artic Ice website and it does look like a nice product. I am assuming the internal formula is superior to the stuff found in your average "Igloo" style refreeze packs. I am also guessing the outer shell is pretty tough and can withstand fins and teeth. No need to ask about careless folks and their sharp toys!
I also like the suggestion about using this product alone for the food/drink coolers. Anything that can reduce my clean up time after a trip is a big plus.
Thanks again.

Hey Mike, Yes very different for sure, if you put fish on top with no water they will freeze solidly if not careful. They are also perfect for putting bait in a smaller cooler. If you don't use the bait, it stays like a rock all day. I have a lot of these things in different sizes. Out of all I bought I did have a few that leaked and wound up throwing them out - not sure if that was due to defect or my mate. But I would still buy these again. Poke around on ebay amazon before you buy from their site - I have seen good deals elsewheres. The also have a super cold type buy you would need a sub zero freezer to make them effective. I like the "chillin brew" type.

 

[PropellerJohnII]

Rick,
I googled the Arctic Ice and see that chilling brew freezes at 28 degrees F that is great. Which one is the super cold? As I am OCD about preserving catch for my sisters and friends, I would definitely want to use these bad boys. Think I gonna pitch my Gatorade bottles and gallon milk plastic containers. this way to go.
Thanks for the heads up, CIAO John. ?

 

[missberylcharters]

John, The "Tundra" series is the coldest BUT has a 5 degree freezing point. So unless you have a sub zero freezer at home no good.