Was kinda hoping I did
The COVID-19 Science and Medicine Question Thread
- Thread starter Roccus7
- Start date
You and me both. Had a horrendous bronchial infection in late February, worst one I've ever dealt with. If a full-blown case of COVID-19 is worst than that, I want NO part of it...
I was hoping kinda to know I lived thru it oh well theres the next wave
I had bronchitis for two months, starting while on our river cruise Netherlands to Switzerland in September. Kept SWMBO awake with my cough the last 6 nights on the barge. Was sort of hoping that it was the fore-runner, but blood tests showed no such luck. Still awaiting the vaccine. Still masking and seeing no one but son and SWMBO.
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
I just came back from an anti-body test. They told me it was not fda approved and that the anti-bodies are not in you that long....so the test is sketchy, like everything else with this covid 19...I'll get results tomorrow....pretty sure it will be negative
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
does not mean you didn't
Where did you have it done? The FDA Approval thing could be a semantics thing, in that NONE of the COVID-19 tests, diagnostic (Nucleic Acids) or serological (Antigody) are not truly FDA approved which is not an approval. They are being allowed to be sold by the FDA under an Emergency Use Authorization letter, which means they got out their quicker.
The first batch of really poor Ab tests didn't have to even file data with FDA, but the newer, more accurate ones do and FDA does a quick review before they'll issue the EUA letter.
As far as the antibody's half life in vivo, it's another legal thing. Since know one really knows how long you have detectable COVID antibodies yet, they say that. Did you also get the disclaimer about if you test positive, it might mean you were infected by a different coronavirus? That's another one of the "unknowns" at this point...
This what I got from QUEST
SARS CoV 2 AB IGG
NEGATIVE
Reference range: Negative
This test is intended for use as an aid in identifying
individuals with an adaptive immune response to
SARS-CoV-2, indicating recent or prior infection.
Results are for the detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies.
IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 are generally detectable
in blood several days after initial infection, although
the duration of time antibodies are present post-infection
is not well characterized. At this time, it is unknown
for how long antibodies persist following infection
and if the presence of antibodies confers protective
immunity. Individuals may have detectable virus by
molecular testing present for several weeks following
seroconversion. Negative results do not preclude acute
SARS-CoV-2 infection. This test should not be used to
diagnose acute SARS-CoV-2 infection. If acute infection
is suspected, direct testing by molecular methods for
SARS-CoV-2 is necessary. False positive results for the
test may occur due to cross-reactivity from pre-existing
antibodies or other possible causes.
Please review the Fact Sheets available for health
care providers and patients using the following websites:
QuestDiagnostics.com/home/Covid-19/HCP/antibody/fact-sheet1
QuestDiagnostics.com/home/Covid-19/Patients/antibody/fact-sheet1
This test has been authorized by the FDA under an
Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for use by authorized
laboratories. The FDA authorized labeling is available
on the Quest Diagnostics website:
www.QuestDiagnostics.com/Covid19.
For additional information please refer to
SARS-CoV-2 Serology (COVID-19) Antibody (IgG), Immunoassay
(This link is being provided for informational/educational
purposes only.) Show Less
SARS CoV 2 AB IGG
NEGATIVE
Reference range: Negative
This test is intended for use as an aid in identifying
individuals with an adaptive immune response to
SARS-CoV-2, indicating recent or prior infection.
Results are for the detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies.
IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 are generally detectable
in blood several days after initial infection, although
the duration of time antibodies are present post-infection
is not well characterized. At this time, it is unknown
for how long antibodies persist following infection
and if the presence of antibodies confers protective
immunity. Individuals may have detectable virus by
molecular testing present for several weeks following
seroconversion. Negative results do not preclude acute
SARS-CoV-2 infection. This test should not be used to
diagnose acute SARS-CoV-2 infection. If acute infection
is suspected, direct testing by molecular methods for
SARS-CoV-2 is necessary. False positive results for the
test may occur due to cross-reactivity from pre-existing
antibodies or other possible causes.
Please review the Fact Sheets available for health
care providers and patients using the following websites:
QuestDiagnostics.com/home/Covid-19/HCP/antibody/fact-sheet1
QuestDiagnostics.com/home/Covid-19/Patients/antibody/fact-sheet1
This test has been authorized by the FDA under an
Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for use by authorized
laboratories. The FDA authorized labeling is available
on the Quest Diagnostics website:
www.QuestDiagnostics.com/Covid19.
For additional information please refer to
SARS-CoV-2 Serology (COVID-19) Antibody (IgG), Immunoassay
(This link is being provided for informational/educational
purposes only.) Show Less
If you think you've been recently infected, you should get the diagnostic, Nucleic Acid Test. That's the when they swab you in the throat and nose, although some now are only swab a single place.
The blood test, being an antibody test, would definitely be negative early in an infection.
The blood test, being an antibody test, would definitely be negative early in an infection.
CELLFISH
Well-Known Angler
my wife gets bronchitis attacks, coughing last weeks, terribly annoying... cellie...
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
On 60 minutes tonight they had a report saying the anti body tests are useless
Dang, forgot to record it and am curious to know the situation/condition that elicited that comment...
Ab tests ARE useless in certain situations/applications, just like a screwdriver is useless for driving nails. They are both tools and have appropriate applications, along with inappropriate applications.
And never forget that no diagnostic is perfect; understanding a test's limitations is critical to utilizing that test. I have a real problem with the way tests are reported now, with a computer putting a diagnosis along with the result. This "diagnosis" is made without any consideration of other factors including physical presentation, which can be critical to an accurate diagnosis.
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
CBS does on demand and last night is available
Thanks, got it recording now, but the Program Notes, "the distribution of flawed COVID-19 antibody tests", speaks volumes. I've got the feeling that this is an "old news" report, over stating the obvious...
In the initial rush to get release of Ab tests, many tests were released with no regulatory review and they were POS, some literally made in overseas folks' garages, and many made by folks who never made a diagnostic test in their lives. There were even some "home" tests included in this group, and yes, most of the who lot were worthless.
The ones that are available now and run by large reference labs like Quest, Labcorp, Northwell, etc. are much more reliable. These are the tests that your doctor does not give you an immediate result, but sends your blood sample out to a centralized testing center.
By virtue of what Cany posted, he had one of these newer, more accurate tests. His problem was that he was given the wrong test. If he was complaining about feeling sick a few days before he went to the doctor, he should have been given the diagnostic, nucleic acid test...
This graph is very sobering. It represents the number of daily newly diagnosed COVID positives in the US. I have 2 observations regarding it.
For a point of reference, here's Canada's graph. One might be able to make a dramatic increase in cases, one could argue that they would be experiencing a second wave.
- We are not experiencing the second wave of infection, this increase is still part of the first wave.
- I'm confident that part of the increase of positive test results is the increased testing, the rest being a drop in folks keeping their guard up as things like stay at home orders are being eased up as we try to restart the economy. It would be nice to see the daily positivity percentage also, i.e. what percent of patients tested on a given day were positive. This helps to eliminate any artifact due to the increase in testing.
For a point of reference, here's Canada's graph. One might be able to make a dramatic increase in cases, one could argue that they would be experiencing a second wave.
The results are in from the "experiment" of Sweden and they ain't good...
Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale
Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.
LONDON — Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.
This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.
“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”
The results of Sweden’s experience are relevant well beyond Scandinavian shores. In the United States, where the virus is spreading with alarming speed, many states have — at President Trump’s urging — avoided lockdowns or lifted them prematurely on the assumption that this would foster economic revival, allowing people to return to workplaces, shops and restaurants.
In Britain, Prime Minister Boris Johnson — previously hospitalized with Covid-19 — reopened pubs and restaurants last weekend in a bid to restore normal economic life.
Implicit in these approaches is the assumption that governments must balance saving lives against the imperative to spare jobs, with the extra health risks of rolling back social distancing potentially justified by a resulting boost to prosperity. But Sweden’s grim result — more death, and nearly equal economic damage — suggests that the supposed choice between lives and paychecks is a false one: A failure to impose social distancing can cost lives and jobs at the same time.
Sweden put stock in the sensibility of its people as it largely avoided imposing government prohibitions. The government allowed restaurants, gyms, shops, playgrounds and most schools to remain open. By contrast, Denmark and Norway opted for strict quarantines, banning large groups and locking down shops and restaurants.
More than three months later, the coronavirus is blamed for 5,420 deaths in Sweden, according to the World Health Organization. That might not sound especially horrendous compared with the more than 129,000 Americans who have died. But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
The elevated death toll resulting from Sweden’s approach has been clear for many weeks. What is only now emerging is how Sweden, despite letting its economy run unimpeded, has still suffered business-destroying, prosperity-diminishing damage, and at nearly the same magnitude of its neighbors.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note.
This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bank expects that the economy will shrink 4.1 percent this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.
In short, Sweden suffered a vastly higher death rate while failing to collect on the expected economic gains.
The coronavirus does not stop at national borders. Despite the government’s decision to allow the domestic economy to roll on, Swedish businesses are stuck with the same conditions that produced recession everywhere else. And Swedish people responded to the fear of the virus by limiting their shopping — not enough to prevent elevated deaths, but enough to produce a decline in business activity.
Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself. From Asia to Europe to the Americas, the risks of the pandemic have disrupted businesses while prompting people to avoid shopping malls and restaurants, regardless of official policy.
Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale
Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.
LONDON — Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.
This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.
“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”
The results of Sweden’s experience are relevant well beyond Scandinavian shores. In the United States, where the virus is spreading with alarming speed, many states have — at President Trump’s urging — avoided lockdowns or lifted them prematurely on the assumption that this would foster economic revival, allowing people to return to workplaces, shops and restaurants.
In Britain, Prime Minister Boris Johnson — previously hospitalized with Covid-19 — reopened pubs and restaurants last weekend in a bid to restore normal economic life.
Implicit in these approaches is the assumption that governments must balance saving lives against the imperative to spare jobs, with the extra health risks of rolling back social distancing potentially justified by a resulting boost to prosperity. But Sweden’s grim result — more death, and nearly equal economic damage — suggests that the supposed choice between lives and paychecks is a false one: A failure to impose social distancing can cost lives and jobs at the same time.
Sweden put stock in the sensibility of its people as it largely avoided imposing government prohibitions. The government allowed restaurants, gyms, shops, playgrounds and most schools to remain open. By contrast, Denmark and Norway opted for strict quarantines, banning large groups and locking down shops and restaurants.
More than three months later, the coronavirus is blamed for 5,420 deaths in Sweden, according to the World Health Organization. That might not sound especially horrendous compared with the more than 129,000 Americans who have died. But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
The elevated death toll resulting from Sweden’s approach has been clear for many weeks. What is only now emerging is how Sweden, despite letting its economy run unimpeded, has still suffered business-destroying, prosperity-diminishing damage, and at nearly the same magnitude of its neighbors.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note.
This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bank expects that the economy will shrink 4.1 percent this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.
In short, Sweden suffered a vastly higher death rate while failing to collect on the expected economic gains.
The coronavirus does not stop at national borders. Despite the government’s decision to allow the domestic economy to roll on, Swedish businesses are stuck with the same conditions that produced recession everywhere else. And Swedish people responded to the fear of the virus by limiting their shopping — not enough to prevent elevated deaths, but enough to produce a decline in business activity.
Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself. From Asia to Europe to the Americas, the risks of the pandemic have disrupted businesses while prompting people to avoid shopping malls and restaurants, regardless of official policy.
Capt13
Well-Known Angler
I think many people don't get that.
I think you are supposed to credit the source of the article if you don't link it - which is behind a paywall.
Yeah my bad, NYTimes. Was busy "extracting" it so I could share...
Of course we're missing a proper "Control" here, but it's an impossibility in that it would take just about the entire, industrialized world to let things run rampant to truly assess the sole economic impact of the virus alone against the impact of shutdowns.
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