Savvy I love that lami, I have tried several other blanks that people swear by like some UC's and the Phenix, but I love the feel of it. I do like my M1 and the new UC 700l but I have had other " high end blanks"that I just didn't care for. but gonna use the Lamiglass as the primary rod. The Maxel is a very nice reel I am hapwith it. I hope the Abu Revo beast can perform the way I hope. Only time will tell. It does seem pretty nice out of the box . I'm gonna start using my Daiwa Luna 253 that I just put a power handle on. That reel has been sitting in the rack unused for over 5 years now. It should work fine for the toggin I do out of Jones inlet.
Tog Sh!t - A "SERIOUS" Discussion
- Thread starter Savvy18
- Start date
Where to begin on this one? So I've been fishing for these buggers since the early 70's, I guess. Back in High School (before any of us could drive) me and my buddies would pedal our bikes down to Wantagh Park, chain them to the fence all the way at the SE end of the Park, hop that fence, cross the "First Bridge," and get onto the muddy island to the right to gather our own fiddlers. No biggie back then to grab up at least a few quarts in a half hour or so, that's how thick they were.
From there, a fairly long walk to the second bridge, where we'd fish from the rocks on the NE corner on the incoming, and the SW corner on the outgoing. Didn't have to cast very far, drop it right behind the second concrete stantion, let it hit bottom - and hold on. The hits would be immediate - swing hard and reel like hell! Either that, you got hung in the various and sundry bridge debris that littered the bottom, right up close to the bridge.
I have to say that we went thru PLENTY of 5oz sinkers and #4 Virginia hooks on those excursions. I do recall that my outfit of choice was an Abu-Mitchell #620 reel (the one with the white side plates and chrome on brass spool), mounted to an Abu Garcia Black series 6'8" solid glass rod, the one with the black-painted wooden rear handle. That rod wasn't especially sensitive, in fact it was horrible in the sensitivity department. But it was damn stout, and could really take a beating, having been repeatedly dropped on those bridge-side rocks, without serious injury. Ahh, the days of chrome on steel rod guides. Man, could those things take a pounding!
It was quite a bit of work fishing this way, but we caught tons, and I mean TONS of very respectable tog, to maybe 6lbs - which you have to admit is a very nice fish, fishing from shore - then or now. The big problem was in the transportation of those fish back to our homes in Island Trees - which was a serious 7 miles or so distant. So we would bring along a burlap sack for each of us, sling it over our shoulders for the looong walk back to Wantagh Park, then strap it to the back rack of our bikes - for the ride home. The skeeters usually ate us alive during that walk - we finally wised up and brought along a can of bug spray, and that solved that problem. A bit anyway.
We must have looked pretty funny pedaling along homeward, up Wantagh Avenue, with a nearly 7' rod strapped to our bike's frames behind the seat, plus a big bag of fish tied to the carrying racks. We had never even seen a bungee cord back then, but I bet we would have loved them, had we known.
I recall that one trip as we were crossing Sunrise Highway at Wantagh Ave, my bag fell off my bike rack, split open and spilled what had to be 50lbs of my blackfish all over the intersection. What a pretty pickle to be in, with the light about to change. So luckily for us, there was a cop parked near that corner, right in front of the Light House Dinner - he saw what had happened and jumped out of his cruiser, ran into the middle of Sunrise, and hand-directed traffic around us, until we had collected all of my fish and redistributed them to my other friend's bags for the final push homeward. That cop was laughing the whole time. Some cars were beeping and giving us the high sign - could have been the finger or maybe the "Sicilian Salute," I just can't remember. I do recall a lot of grins as they steered around us, as we plucking those fish off the roadway.
Later on, once I had my license, it was game on, entirely new fishing venues were opened for us. My favorite was riding out to Montauk and fishing those Cod/Blackfish trips to SW Ledge that boats like the Marlin would run, right around Thanksgiving. Man, what fishing, Heavy tide once you came off the slack, 12 to 16oz sinkers at a minimum, but the fishing was just insane, Drop down, pay it back in the tide 'til it hit bottom - and whammo, a nice one on. The first time I went out there, the mate asked me what size hook I would be using, I told him Virginia #4s - and he laughed and handed me a dozen snelled Virginas, in size # TWO! Now THOSE are some MONSTER tog hooks! But they hooked and held, which I guess was the point of the whole deal.
A bit later on we moved our " exotic foreign grounds" togging to the Wilhelric, out of Greenport - captained at that time by Richie Jensen. No worries catching a bucket of fish back then, that's for sure. I recall one trip the wind was really cranking out of the NE and so Captain Jensen tucked the boat in tight behind Plum Island just E of the SW corner. As soon as he blew the whistle 30 lines went down and within seconds every single rod was bent over, with a good-sized fish digging for the bottom.
Early on during that trip I recall have my two hook rig, tied with those old-school 50lb stiff leaders, being ripped apart by a pair of monster fish. My buddy had some 80lb material in his sea bag, which he flipped over to me. I quickly got re-rigged, dropped down, and in what had to be 15 seconds I was fast to another pair of bruisers, which turned out to be an identical set of 8lb fish. That was quite a tussle. This sort of happening tends to stay with you for a while - in this case it has to have been at least 40 years ago - and I remember it like it was yesterday, Don't ask me what I had for breakfast yesterday, but that trip I do recall in perfect detail.
Later on, the owner of the boat, Artie Latch, took the boat to Sag Harbor and ran it off the Long Wharf - and though Arties's skill set could not really match Richie Jensen's, we still caught tons of fish with him. He was kind of known as "Mad Dog" and liked to fish a certain piece of bottom north of Little Gull Island so often that the local captains began calling it "Mad Dog Reef," which back then yielded amazing catches of outsized fish. Didn't matter the tide, just keep adding lead, up to a titanic 16oz, No worries, the fish would bite well through that crazy current.
End Part One
From there, a fairly long walk to the second bridge, where we'd fish from the rocks on the NE corner on the incoming, and the SW corner on the outgoing. Didn't have to cast very far, drop it right behind the second concrete stantion, let it hit bottom - and hold on. The hits would be immediate - swing hard and reel like hell! Either that, you got hung in the various and sundry bridge debris that littered the bottom, right up close to the bridge.
I have to say that we went thru PLENTY of 5oz sinkers and #4 Virginia hooks on those excursions. I do recall that my outfit of choice was an Abu-Mitchell #620 reel (the one with the white side plates and chrome on brass spool), mounted to an Abu Garcia Black series 6'8" solid glass rod, the one with the black-painted wooden rear handle. That rod wasn't especially sensitive, in fact it was horrible in the sensitivity department. But it was damn stout, and could really take a beating, having been repeatedly dropped on those bridge-side rocks, without serious injury. Ahh, the days of chrome on steel rod guides. Man, could those things take a pounding!
It was quite a bit of work fishing this way, but we caught tons, and I mean TONS of very respectable tog, to maybe 6lbs - which you have to admit is a very nice fish, fishing from shore - then or now. The big problem was in the transportation of those fish back to our homes in Island Trees - which was a serious 7 miles or so distant. So we would bring along a burlap sack for each of us, sling it over our shoulders for the looong walk back to Wantagh Park, then strap it to the back rack of our bikes - for the ride home. The skeeters usually ate us alive during that walk - we finally wised up and brought along a can of bug spray, and that solved that problem. A bit anyway.
We must have looked pretty funny pedaling along homeward, up Wantagh Avenue, with a nearly 7' rod strapped to our bike's frames behind the seat, plus a big bag of fish tied to the carrying racks. We had never even seen a bungee cord back then, but I bet we would have loved them, had we known.
I recall that one trip as we were crossing Sunrise Highway at Wantagh Ave, my bag fell off my bike rack, split open and spilled what had to be 50lbs of my blackfish all over the intersection. What a pretty pickle to be in, with the light about to change. So luckily for us, there was a cop parked near that corner, right in front of the Light House Dinner - he saw what had happened and jumped out of his cruiser, ran into the middle of Sunrise, and hand-directed traffic around us, until we had collected all of my fish and redistributed them to my other friend's bags for the final push homeward. That cop was laughing the whole time. Some cars were beeping and giving us the high sign - could have been the finger or maybe the "Sicilian Salute," I just can't remember. I do recall a lot of grins as they steered around us, as we plucking those fish off the roadway.
Later on, once I had my license, it was game on, entirely new fishing venues were opened for us. My favorite was riding out to Montauk and fishing those Cod/Blackfish trips to SW Ledge that boats like the Marlin would run, right around Thanksgiving. Man, what fishing, Heavy tide once you came off the slack, 12 to 16oz sinkers at a minimum, but the fishing was just insane, Drop down, pay it back in the tide 'til it hit bottom - and whammo, a nice one on. The first time I went out there, the mate asked me what size hook I would be using, I told him Virginia #4s - and he laughed and handed me a dozen snelled Virginas, in size # TWO! Now THOSE are some MONSTER tog hooks! But they hooked and held, which I guess was the point of the whole deal.
A bit later on we moved our " exotic foreign grounds" togging to the Wilhelric, out of Greenport - captained at that time by Richie Jensen. No worries catching a bucket of fish back then, that's for sure. I recall one trip the wind was really cranking out of the NE and so Captain Jensen tucked the boat in tight behind Plum Island just E of the SW corner. As soon as he blew the whistle 30 lines went down and within seconds every single rod was bent over, with a good-sized fish digging for the bottom.
Early on during that trip I recall have my two hook rig, tied with those old-school 50lb stiff leaders, being ripped apart by a pair of monster fish. My buddy had some 80lb material in his sea bag, which he flipped over to me. I quickly got re-rigged, dropped down, and in what had to be 15 seconds I was fast to another pair of bruisers, which turned out to be an identical set of 8lb fish. That was quite a tussle. This sort of happening tends to stay with you for a while - in this case it has to have been at least 40 years ago - and I remember it like it was yesterday, Don't ask me what I had for breakfast yesterday, but that trip I do recall in perfect detail.
Later on, the owner of the boat, Artie Latch, took the boat to Sag Harbor and ran it off the Long Wharf - and though Arties's skill set could not really match Richie Jensen's, we still caught tons of fish with him. He was kind of known as "Mad Dog" and liked to fish a certain piece of bottom north of Little Gull Island so often that the local captains began calling it "Mad Dog Reef," which back then yielded amazing catches of outsized fish. Didn't matter the tide, just keep adding lead, up to a titanic 16oz, No worries, the fish would bite well through that crazy current.
End Part One
Last edited:
L
You are bringing back some great memories. I also began my lifetime love of togging with Capt. Rich on the Wilhelric. Still fishing with him today.
Al
Lep,
You are bringing back some great memories. I also began my lifetime love of togging with Capt. Rich on the Wilhelric. Still fishing with him today.
Al
Part 2
Wow, what blackfishing back then! Nobody ever heard the name "Tog" or "Tautog" in those long ago days, by the way. I think maybe that name migrated down from New England, where it was the local Indian's name for these fish - or so the old books used to say. Who really knows for sure? It was so looong ago.
In any case, by this time my outfit of choice was a white Fenwick “Fenglass” IGFA 30lb blank that I wrapped myself, on my home made wrapping rack, carrying a Penn 146, murdered out with a full Newell reel frame hot rod set. I really though I was the Sh!t, using that outfit. And now that I look back, that dopey Penn 146 must have been the beginning of my reel-tuning fetish. Hey, there are far worse things in which to get wrapped up!
I still have both that rod and the little 146, by the way. I will never, ever let them leave my possession - as they carry a ton of history. Great, great fishing was done with that outfit, that's for sure. In fact now that I think of it, that setup was the one I used to pull the biggest blackfish I have ever seen in the flesh - even to this date. I believe that it was every bit of 15 pounds in weight, and luckily I still have a Polaroid of it. Check it out:
Not a great image, having to re-shoot it tonight with my phone, thru the plastic page it sits within. But you get the idea. To give some scale, that tub was 31 inches long, and that fish stretched from one side all the way to the other, so you tell me what you think it weighed. Capt. Artie called it an "easy 15lbs" when he netted it and dropped it on his deck - so I'm goin' with that.
I do also recall that this fish came off a plateau in the middle of the Race that Artie liked to fish on the slack. He used to refer to it as the "Indian Grounds," but I now understand that was a misnaming, as the true Indian Grounds resides closer to Fisher Island, or so I'm told. If I recall correctly, that plateau came up to around 45-50', and this particular fish ran all the way straight back to the bottom from just under the boat, at least two times, against a nearly locked down drag . Strongest tog I ever hooked, then or now. What a fish! By the way, that rod in the pic certainly wasn't the Fenwick I used back then - it must have been one of Artie's loaner boat setups.
Very late in the season Artie liked to fish the shelf right near the buoy on the SW corner of Fisher's, near the light house. And those trips, very close to Thanksgiving, were ALWAYS off the hook crazy good. God, thinking back, the fishing these days really does pale, in comparison to what was regularly available to us back then. People that weren't yet alive to witness it just have no real basis for grasping that fishing. Let's try this - if you are under 50 years old, take the best blackfish trip you've ever been on - and triple it in greatness. That's how routinely good it was back then.
In that time frame I used to fish nearly every weekend with my Uncle, first from his 20' Wellcraft V-20, and a bit later on from his 24' Wellcraft Airslot. Now THAT was a great sea boat. Also, people these days are under the impression that Grady White invented the walk around cabin boat, but that's not true. Wellcraft beat them to the market by more than a few years with their tremendous Airslot hulls. Anyway, what was nice about that boat was that we could put a pair of anchor line tubs up in the bow, and I could work those two anchors, while my Uncle maneuvered the boat. Those were the days of the yellow Prestone bottle wreck markers - no pinpoint accurate GPS's back then. In fact even our kluggie Micrologic Loran C was considered a super modern piece of electronics - and made us the envy of many of our friends.
Oh man, that Micrologic, what a POS! Just about every freakin' time we'd get within 500' of a drop you could absolutely expect that it would start flashing its two numbered LCDs, indicating a weak or lost slave station, or maybe some other damn problem - who could tell? I don't remember exactly how many times Uncle sent that pile of junk back to the manufacturer for service, but it was plenty. Finally he gave up, and installed an Apelco Loran C - and that unit was dead balls on the money, no more problems. I do recall immediately thereafter sailing out to the ABR, getting on his favorite drop with the Apelco, and him giving me the honor of flipping the Micrologic over the side - to join the rest of the junk down on the bottom over there. Never have I been happier dropping a piece of boating equipment overboard!
Around that time Uncle also upgraded his bottom machine. Originally we had learned to find bottom with an old-school Ross paper fish finder - which had a circular flasher on its left, and the paper display on the right. But there was a weird twist to how that paper recorder worked. The scratch-generating stylus was attached to the circular flasher's arm, and so the resulting mono-color graph was curved, not straight.
You had to really know how to interpret what your chart was showing - it was pretty darn good at showing bottom density changes, but that curved picture could drive you to drink, if you really kept staring at it. This went on for several years, until just after our Apelco Loran machine proved the value of that particular electronics company. Uncle then bought an Apelco straight-line paper recorder - a MAJOR upgrade. I believe that Apelco electronics was the "value-priced" line from Raytheon, but it didn't matter to us, as their instruments were pretty darn good.
Several seasons later we made an additional upgrade, going from the paper-chewing Apelco to a 6" Sitex CRT color machine (maybe a CVS-106?). And that was yet another great leap forward. No more dopey paper to have to change right in the middle of hunting down bottom. A fairly bright image and pretty decent bottom discrimination - it really helped with our bottom fishing adventures, not to mention our Fall wire-line bassing.
End Part Two
Wow, what blackfishing back then! Nobody ever heard the name "Tog" or "Tautog" in those long ago days, by the way. I think maybe that name migrated down from New England, where it was the local Indian's name for these fish - or so the old books used to say. Who really knows for sure? It was so looong ago.
In any case, by this time my outfit of choice was a white Fenwick “Fenglass” IGFA 30lb blank that I wrapped myself, on my home made wrapping rack, carrying a Penn 146, murdered out with a full Newell reel frame hot rod set. I really though I was the Sh!t, using that outfit. And now that I look back, that dopey Penn 146 must have been the beginning of my reel-tuning fetish. Hey, there are far worse things in which to get wrapped up!
I still have both that rod and the little 146, by the way. I will never, ever let them leave my possession - as they carry a ton of history. Great, great fishing was done with that outfit, that's for sure. In fact now that I think of it, that setup was the one I used to pull the biggest blackfish I have ever seen in the flesh - even to this date. I believe that it was every bit of 15 pounds in weight, and luckily I still have a Polaroid of it. Check it out:
Not a great image, having to re-shoot it tonight with my phone, thru the plastic page it sits within. But you get the idea. To give some scale, that tub was 31 inches long, and that fish stretched from one side all the way to the other, so you tell me what you think it weighed. Capt. Artie called it an "easy 15lbs" when he netted it and dropped it on his deck - so I'm goin' with that.
I do also recall that this fish came off a plateau in the middle of the Race that Artie liked to fish on the slack. He used to refer to it as the "Indian Grounds," but I now understand that was a misnaming, as the true Indian Grounds resides closer to Fisher Island, or so I'm told. If I recall correctly, that plateau came up to around 45-50', and this particular fish ran all the way straight back to the bottom from just under the boat, at least two times, against a nearly locked down drag . Strongest tog I ever hooked, then or now. What a fish! By the way, that rod in the pic certainly wasn't the Fenwick I used back then - it must have been one of Artie's loaner boat setups.
Very late in the season Artie liked to fish the shelf right near the buoy on the SW corner of Fisher's, near the light house. And those trips, very close to Thanksgiving, were ALWAYS off the hook crazy good. God, thinking back, the fishing these days really does pale, in comparison to what was regularly available to us back then. People that weren't yet alive to witness it just have no real basis for grasping that fishing. Let's try this - if you are under 50 years old, take the best blackfish trip you've ever been on - and triple it in greatness. That's how routinely good it was back then.
In that time frame I used to fish nearly every weekend with my Uncle, first from his 20' Wellcraft V-20, and a bit later on from his 24' Wellcraft Airslot. Now THAT was a great sea boat. Also, people these days are under the impression that Grady White invented the walk around cabin boat, but that's not true. Wellcraft beat them to the market by more than a few years with their tremendous Airslot hulls. Anyway, what was nice about that boat was that we could put a pair of anchor line tubs up in the bow, and I could work those two anchors, while my Uncle maneuvered the boat. Those were the days of the yellow Prestone bottle wreck markers - no pinpoint accurate GPS's back then. In fact even our kluggie Micrologic Loran C was considered a super modern piece of electronics - and made us the envy of many of our friends.
Oh man, that Micrologic, what a POS! Just about every freakin' time we'd get within 500' of a drop you could absolutely expect that it would start flashing its two numbered LCDs, indicating a weak or lost slave station, or maybe some other damn problem - who could tell? I don't remember exactly how many times Uncle sent that pile of junk back to the manufacturer for service, but it was plenty. Finally he gave up, and installed an Apelco Loran C - and that unit was dead balls on the money, no more problems. I do recall immediately thereafter sailing out to the ABR, getting on his favorite drop with the Apelco, and him giving me the honor of flipping the Micrologic over the side - to join the rest of the junk down on the bottom over there. Never have I been happier dropping a piece of boating equipment overboard!
Around that time Uncle also upgraded his bottom machine. Originally we had learned to find bottom with an old-school Ross paper fish finder - which had a circular flasher on its left, and the paper display on the right. But there was a weird twist to how that paper recorder worked. The scratch-generating stylus was attached to the circular flasher's arm, and so the resulting mono-color graph was curved, not straight.
You had to really know how to interpret what your chart was showing - it was pretty darn good at showing bottom density changes, but that curved picture could drive you to drink, if you really kept staring at it. This went on for several years, until just after our Apelco Loran machine proved the value of that particular electronics company. Uncle then bought an Apelco straight-line paper recorder - a MAJOR upgrade. I believe that Apelco electronics was the "value-priced" line from Raytheon, but it didn't matter to us, as their instruments were pretty darn good.
Several seasons later we made an additional upgrade, going from the paper-chewing Apelco to a 6" Sitex CRT color machine (maybe a CVS-106?). And that was yet another great leap forward. No more dopey paper to have to change right in the middle of hunting down bottom. A fairly bright image and pretty decent bottom discrimination - it really helped with our bottom fishing adventures, not to mention our Fall wire-line bassing.
End Part Two
Last edited:
Part 3
I could go on for hours, typing about our adventures fishing the mid-South Shore rubble for both blackfish and Cod. Back then the ABR, certain local wrecks, the Rockaway Reef and the wrecks to the South and SW were all crawling with good-sized tog. I recall one trip to the Turner which was just so awesome it defies description. Just crazy-good fishing.
And then there was 17 Fathoms - which was the "Promised Land," as far as I was concerned. The stories that the then "Old Timers" would tell were just too good to believe. I spent many hours pondering the prospects, constantly working on my Uncle to consider sailing waaaay down there.
At that time my Uncle and I belonged to the Eastern Anglers fishing club, and there were a few really accomplished bottom fishermen in that bunch. The best that I remember was Whitey Berman, who originally with his 34' Post sport fisherman and later with his 35' Bruno Downeaster, Ho Choy, just loved sailing off for both tog and cod. I would often speak with him about 17 Fathoms, and his stories were just beyond belief.
After many attempts at prying some numbers from him, he finally gave us a set that put us right up on the 95' plateau down there. I guess I was a major PITA back then, even more so than today - and that's saying something! But I did succeed in wearing Whitey down - and he finally gave up those numbers after he saw how much I wanted to give those grounds a shot. I was relentless!
So off we went for our inaugural trip - and sure enough, that friggin' Micrologic LORAN began error flashing as soon as we got close. Back then sailing to 17 out of JI was considered a MAJOR run for a small boat, and this being our first time, I cannot express the frustration inflicted upon us by that stoopid machine, that day in particular. The words that came out of our mouths were "creatively colorful." My Uncle was a Marine Corp. veteran of the Korean Conflict - so believe me when I tell you he could swear with the best of 'em!
So what we did was to ignore that POS, and found two party boats that were anchored several hundred yards apart. We ran between them, saw some very nice bottom and threw the Prestone bottle. Down went the two anchors (without crowding the head boats), we settled back, and it was a perfect strike, dead-nuts on the buoy.
I just cannot find words that I have not repeatedly used in these posts to describe what happened next. A total all-out slaughter, with many, many outsized fish, to right around 9lbs, or maybe more. We three in the boat had every tub in the boat filled. The two in-floor fish boxes filled. And fish sloshing all over the deck, to the point of crazed stupidity. Looking back, in the long view this kind of piggery is what got us all in trouble, flashing forward to the present day, in shameful reflection. Had we known then what was to come - never ever would we have done this sort of thing. But back then the savage was strong in all of us, and for this I am eternally sorry. Damn, how stupid were we?
Anyway, that was my introduction to 17 Fathoms. That trip, and many other were what has made me look forward to every late Fall's first cold snap. Get that water temp down below 55 degrees and we were (and still are) on our way "down South."
When it became the proper time for me to acquire my own boat, the principal over-riding requirement was that it was large enough, and sufficiently seaworthy to make our trips to places like 17 a relatively uneventful event. Barring screwy forecasts, of course.
And so it continues to this day for me and my Lep buddies. We still sail to the SW every late Fall. Not all that often to 17 any longer, as many of my best drops have been pounded into dis-recognition, thanks to our friends the roller trawlers. But not all that far away - there's still TONS of great deep bottom off the South Shore, and God-willing I'll be fishing it for as long as I can comfortably take care of my boat.
Truth be told, the end of my boating career is not that far down the road. I'll be retiring in a few seasons, and the cost of boating will be more than I can justifiably continue to outlay every year. Not to mention the toll that Spring make-ready and general seasonal maintenance and repairs take on my aging self.
Lucky for me I have a bunch of (younger) good friends that seem all too happy to have me aboard their boats, as irritating as I am to be around. I'll give my friends my drop book once the Lep has moved to its new owner. It took a goodly part of my life to put it all together and I do hope that its as helpful to them as it has been to me. They are all really great guys and I want to help them enjoy the sport as I have over these 45-plus years of sailing out of Jones Inlet.
Wow, that's a looong time, right? So many great blackfish trips over those years. And I haven't even touched on the excellent local codfishing, some days as close as the 50’ fingers and nearby hard bottom, right in front of JI.
Or the pail-per-man winter flounder fishing limit we had to impose on ourselves, fishing up in Merrick's Rowboat Alley. It was really a “How many fish do you want to fillet today?” kind of limit.
The crazy 70's to early '80's weakfishing, both local to me and all the way out on the East End. The mid-Summer Bay mixed bag of kingfish, schoolie weaks and monster blowfish. The crazy early Summer bass clam-chumming up behind the Bay islands, trips with an easy 60 fish per tide.
The days when you could expect to catch fluke to 7lbs in Hempstead Bay, nearly every trip. The wire-lining of nice bass, right after the moratorium was lifted. Later, the long runs we made for the nutso flounder fishing up in Raritan Bay - and later on off Roamer Shoals, and later still the “Jersey Pines” and Nudie Beach. Or how about the drifting with clams on a 3x3 rig, behind the dredges off Jones Beach? That was exciting fishing . . . while it lasted.
The crazed Bass and bluefish jig blitzes you could find nearly every Fall day, running the beach between JI and Brooklyn. The insane green bonito troll bite we used to have, pulling FW Bass-sized plugs in big circles just North of Cholera every September. The jumbo Seabass we'd pull from the Steel & Coal Wrecks every Summer, using our "secret bait" - live Killies.
The sick mackeral fishing right off the JI head buoy that came around every May, like clock work, with the baseball bat-sized whiting right under them.
The truly excellent Codfishing in the Fire Island 100-ft deep fingers every Fall, not to mention the wreck fishing on the 20-mile wrecks in that same general area. All gone now. But far from forgotten, by guys “of a certain age.” Like me, for instance.
Yep, and my younger friends ask why I want to move away upon retirement. Why I would want to end my fishing days the way I started out, on a nice FW Bass impoundment, maybe somewhere in the mid-West.
Welp, they weren’t around to see Long Island fishing when it was really something - no matter the time of year. Nowadays you can have a day to remember, once in a while. But to me, its just about over, a shadow of what I can recall. Too bad, as we did a lot of the damage to ourselves.
Lep
I could go on for hours, typing about our adventures fishing the mid-South Shore rubble for both blackfish and Cod. Back then the ABR, certain local wrecks, the Rockaway Reef and the wrecks to the South and SW were all crawling with good-sized tog. I recall one trip to the Turner which was just so awesome it defies description. Just crazy-good fishing.
And then there was 17 Fathoms - which was the "Promised Land," as far as I was concerned. The stories that the then "Old Timers" would tell were just too good to believe. I spent many hours pondering the prospects, constantly working on my Uncle to consider sailing waaaay down there.
At that time my Uncle and I belonged to the Eastern Anglers fishing club, and there were a few really accomplished bottom fishermen in that bunch. The best that I remember was Whitey Berman, who originally with his 34' Post sport fisherman and later with his 35' Bruno Downeaster, Ho Choy, just loved sailing off for both tog and cod. I would often speak with him about 17 Fathoms, and his stories were just beyond belief.
After many attempts at prying some numbers from him, he finally gave us a set that put us right up on the 95' plateau down there. I guess I was a major PITA back then, even more so than today - and that's saying something! But I did succeed in wearing Whitey down - and he finally gave up those numbers after he saw how much I wanted to give those grounds a shot. I was relentless!
So off we went for our inaugural trip - and sure enough, that friggin' Micrologic LORAN began error flashing as soon as we got close. Back then sailing to 17 out of JI was considered a MAJOR run for a small boat, and this being our first time, I cannot express the frustration inflicted upon us by that stoopid machine, that day in particular. The words that came out of our mouths were "creatively colorful." My Uncle was a Marine Corp. veteran of the Korean Conflict - so believe me when I tell you he could swear with the best of 'em!
So what we did was to ignore that POS, and found two party boats that were anchored several hundred yards apart. We ran between them, saw some very nice bottom and threw the Prestone bottle. Down went the two anchors (without crowding the head boats), we settled back, and it was a perfect strike, dead-nuts on the buoy.
I just cannot find words that I have not repeatedly used in these posts to describe what happened next. A total all-out slaughter, with many, many outsized fish, to right around 9lbs, or maybe more. We three in the boat had every tub in the boat filled. The two in-floor fish boxes filled. And fish sloshing all over the deck, to the point of crazed stupidity. Looking back, in the long view this kind of piggery is what got us all in trouble, flashing forward to the present day, in shameful reflection. Had we known then what was to come - never ever would we have done this sort of thing. But back then the savage was strong in all of us, and for this I am eternally sorry. Damn, how stupid were we?
Anyway, that was my introduction to 17 Fathoms. That trip, and many other were what has made me look forward to every late Fall's first cold snap. Get that water temp down below 55 degrees and we were (and still are) on our way "down South."
When it became the proper time for me to acquire my own boat, the principal over-riding requirement was that it was large enough, and sufficiently seaworthy to make our trips to places like 17 a relatively uneventful event. Barring screwy forecasts, of course.
And so it continues to this day for me and my Lep buddies. We still sail to the SW every late Fall. Not all that often to 17 any longer, as many of my best drops have been pounded into dis-recognition, thanks to our friends the roller trawlers. But not all that far away - there's still TONS of great deep bottom off the South Shore, and God-willing I'll be fishing it for as long as I can comfortably take care of my boat.
Truth be told, the end of my boating career is not that far down the road. I'll be retiring in a few seasons, and the cost of boating will be more than I can justifiably continue to outlay every year. Not to mention the toll that Spring make-ready and general seasonal maintenance and repairs take on my aging self.
Lucky for me I have a bunch of (younger) good friends that seem all too happy to have me aboard their boats, as irritating as I am to be around. I'll give my friends my drop book once the Lep has moved to its new owner. It took a goodly part of my life to put it all together and I do hope that its as helpful to them as it has been to me. They are all really great guys and I want to help them enjoy the sport as I have over these 45-plus years of sailing out of Jones Inlet.
Wow, that's a looong time, right? So many great blackfish trips over those years. And I haven't even touched on the excellent local codfishing, some days as close as the 50’ fingers and nearby hard bottom, right in front of JI.
Or the pail-per-man winter flounder fishing limit we had to impose on ourselves, fishing up in Merrick's Rowboat Alley. It was really a “How many fish do you want to fillet today?” kind of limit.
The crazy 70's to early '80's weakfishing, both local to me and all the way out on the East End. The mid-Summer Bay mixed bag of kingfish, schoolie weaks and monster blowfish. The crazy early Summer bass clam-chumming up behind the Bay islands, trips with an easy 60 fish per tide.
The days when you could expect to catch fluke to 7lbs in Hempstead Bay, nearly every trip. The wire-lining of nice bass, right after the moratorium was lifted. Later, the long runs we made for the nutso flounder fishing up in Raritan Bay - and later on off Roamer Shoals, and later still the “Jersey Pines” and Nudie Beach. Or how about the drifting with clams on a 3x3 rig, behind the dredges off Jones Beach? That was exciting fishing . . . while it lasted.
The crazed Bass and bluefish jig blitzes you could find nearly every Fall day, running the beach between JI and Brooklyn. The insane green bonito troll bite we used to have, pulling FW Bass-sized plugs in big circles just North of Cholera every September. The jumbo Seabass we'd pull from the Steel & Coal Wrecks every Summer, using our "secret bait" - live Killies.
The sick mackeral fishing right off the JI head buoy that came around every May, like clock work, with the baseball bat-sized whiting right under them.
The truly excellent Codfishing in the Fire Island 100-ft deep fingers every Fall, not to mention the wreck fishing on the 20-mile wrecks in that same general area. All gone now. But far from forgotten, by guys “of a certain age.” Like me, for instance.
Yep, and my younger friends ask why I want to move away upon retirement. Why I would want to end my fishing days the way I started out, on a nice FW Bass impoundment, maybe somewhere in the mid-West.
Welp, they weren’t around to see Long Island fishing when it was really something - no matter the time of year. Nowadays you can have a day to remember, once in a while. But to me, its just about over, a shadow of what I can recall. Too bad, as we did a lot of the damage to ourselves.
Lep
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captmike28
Well-Known Angler
Wow, what a great write up, Lep. Having been close friends and fishing buddies now for somewhere around 30 years, I was fortunate enough to have been aboard for some of those killer trips to 17 fathoms. Being a North Fork guy for the majority of my fishing entire career I used to think we were the only ones that enjoyed truly superior Blackfishing. Lep certainly changed my opinion about that!!
My earliest recollections of dedicated Blackfishng date back to the late 60’s soon after getting my driver’s license and being able to fish where I pleased. Early on my Dad and I would frequent both the North Fork Party Boats and also loved to rent skiffs form Port of Egypt when their Fishing Station operation was going strong. It was a real zoo out there during the incredible Weakfish runs we saw in the Peconic’s back in the 70’s with people lining up many hours before the station would open in Southold to target the Tiderunners. However, at the same time POE also used to run a small sub station at Orient Point with this really wild “amusement park” style contraption they used for launching the skiffs just west of the lighthouse. Essentially it was a kind of overhead railway system with lift straps holding a platform base that lead from the beach to the water. You would load your gear in the skiff, the fork lift would pick up the skiff ad place it on the platform, the crew would get in the skiff, and then they would launch you sliding down this railway into the Sound! Upon returning you would guide the skiff onto the platform and they had a cable attached to the platform on one side and the drive wheel of an old car on land. One of the POE crew would fire up the car, apply the gas, and raise the platform back to shore. I really wish I had a photo of that operation as it is one I doubt we will ever see again.
Anyway, back to the origin of this thread. In those days Blackfishing was so good in the Sound all you needed to do was take a five-minute ride to the East and anchor anywhere near the lighthouse or run about 10 minutes to the West and fish any of the giant boulders protruding out of the water at Mulford Point. It was truly sick fishing with many days finding us culling out almost any Tog less than 5#. On those trips my “fish box” was a red Rubbermaid 50-gallon trash pail and we had no problem filling that to overflowing in short order. One of the bonuses back then was you could also put out a dead stick with a skimmer clam on a high hook usually nail a few nice school sized Cod! The beautiful light weight tackle we use today had not yet even been invented so I used my heavy Conlon Codfish set up with a Penn Squidder filled 30# test mono. As I recall the fish were so aggressive at the time, they practically yanked the rod out of your hands when passing the crab back to their molars. None of the stupid “scratchy” bites we see today which almost requires the most sensitive tackle available.
Time moved forward and I was able to start really increasing my own fishing knowledge by working for the next 25 years in this same area running 2 different Grady White Boats. I too was able to enjoy the spectacular action Lep had mentioned in may of the spots surrounding Plum I, Little Gull and Great Gull Islands, and of course the Tog mecca known as Fishers Island. One trip was really memorable, but not necessarily because of the Blackfishing which was just OK (probably great by today’s standards). It was just Lep and I on a really bone chilling November day. Temperatures were near freezing with a light rain falling off and on. Early afternoon we are anchored on one of my favorite pieces north of Plum and I had baited up, opened the clutch on my reel, and in the process my nearly frozen fingers dropped the rod and reel over the side. At the time I thought it was a great outfit, a Diawa Graphite rod matched to a Newell 235. Quite heavy by comparison to current tackle but still one I loved. I spent the next 20-30 minutes cursing myself and bad luck for dropping this rig over the side in an area known to have very strong currents. Well wouldn’t you know as I am really whining about my loss, Lep reels in and has a pair of hooks caught on his own hooks. He turns to me and says “Mike these look like your hooks”. Sure, enough we hand line in the entire spool and up comes the rod and reel! Truly amazing!
With the drastically reduced stocks and the need to really enjoy every Tog caught I too have downsized considerably on the tackle side of things. My favorite outfit today is a CTS BS 703 matched to an Avet SX 5.1 with 30# Momoi braid. I have landed many really large Tog on this outfit and never felt outmatched. One incredible day on Lep's boat a few years ago I actually decked back to back fish in the 9.5-10# class on successive baits and even broke one off on the third bait up I simply could not stop. Out in the Sound, I have tamed several really nice Tog in the 8-10# class in recent years. Currently some of my really best drops are on the CT side and 2 years ago I landed my PB of 14# on this same outfit. I will post a pair of photos of a couple of DD Tog here including the PB which also measured 31”. Sadly, I was alone that day and the deck shot does not really do it justice.
Three years ago, I also started experimenting with the new fad of “jigging” Blackfish on light spinning tackle. I am far from an expert at this method and, so far, the biggest fish I have taken using this method is only 7#. I believe with these super light outfits you have to be extremely lucky to land a big Tog on tackle that makes it very hard to turn the head of any serious fish. My outfit here is a Batson XSB843 matched with a Shimano Stradic 3000 reel loaded with Suffix 20# braid. Almost all of my charter customers want to try this technique nowadays ad when the tides allow and I am working the shallower spots, generally 40’ and less this is a viable option.
So, I have rambled on long enough. Regarding the “mystique” surrounding Blackfish I will make one last observation that I think other Captains who specialize in bottom fishing will agree with. Every season I book more trips for Blackfish than any other single species. Sadly, with the often unpredictable fall weather we lose one third to one half of all the planned sailings (like last fall). In my book that certainly qualifies die hard Blackfisherman as members of a “cult”!!!
My earliest recollections of dedicated Blackfishng date back to the late 60’s soon after getting my driver’s license and being able to fish where I pleased. Early on my Dad and I would frequent both the North Fork Party Boats and also loved to rent skiffs form Port of Egypt when their Fishing Station operation was going strong. It was a real zoo out there during the incredible Weakfish runs we saw in the Peconic’s back in the 70’s with people lining up many hours before the station would open in Southold to target the Tiderunners. However, at the same time POE also used to run a small sub station at Orient Point with this really wild “amusement park” style contraption they used for launching the skiffs just west of the lighthouse. Essentially it was a kind of overhead railway system with lift straps holding a platform base that lead from the beach to the water. You would load your gear in the skiff, the fork lift would pick up the skiff ad place it on the platform, the crew would get in the skiff, and then they would launch you sliding down this railway into the Sound! Upon returning you would guide the skiff onto the platform and they had a cable attached to the platform on one side and the drive wheel of an old car on land. One of the POE crew would fire up the car, apply the gas, and raise the platform back to shore. I really wish I had a photo of that operation as it is one I doubt we will ever see again.
Anyway, back to the origin of this thread. In those days Blackfishing was so good in the Sound all you needed to do was take a five-minute ride to the East and anchor anywhere near the lighthouse or run about 10 minutes to the West and fish any of the giant boulders protruding out of the water at Mulford Point. It was truly sick fishing with many days finding us culling out almost any Tog less than 5#. On those trips my “fish box” was a red Rubbermaid 50-gallon trash pail and we had no problem filling that to overflowing in short order. One of the bonuses back then was you could also put out a dead stick with a skimmer clam on a high hook usually nail a few nice school sized Cod! The beautiful light weight tackle we use today had not yet even been invented so I used my heavy Conlon Codfish set up with a Penn Squidder filled 30# test mono. As I recall the fish were so aggressive at the time, they practically yanked the rod out of your hands when passing the crab back to their molars. None of the stupid “scratchy” bites we see today which almost requires the most sensitive tackle available.
Time moved forward and I was able to start really increasing my own fishing knowledge by working for the next 25 years in this same area running 2 different Grady White Boats. I too was able to enjoy the spectacular action Lep had mentioned in may of the spots surrounding Plum I, Little Gull and Great Gull Islands, and of course the Tog mecca known as Fishers Island. One trip was really memorable, but not necessarily because of the Blackfishing which was just OK (probably great by today’s standards). It was just Lep and I on a really bone chilling November day. Temperatures were near freezing with a light rain falling off and on. Early afternoon we are anchored on one of my favorite pieces north of Plum and I had baited up, opened the clutch on my reel, and in the process my nearly frozen fingers dropped the rod and reel over the side. At the time I thought it was a great outfit, a Diawa Graphite rod matched to a Newell 235. Quite heavy by comparison to current tackle but still one I loved. I spent the next 20-30 minutes cursing myself and bad luck for dropping this rig over the side in an area known to have very strong currents. Well wouldn’t you know as I am really whining about my loss, Lep reels in and has a pair of hooks caught on his own hooks. He turns to me and says “Mike these look like your hooks”. Sure, enough we hand line in the entire spool and up comes the rod and reel! Truly amazing!
With the drastically reduced stocks and the need to really enjoy every Tog caught I too have downsized considerably on the tackle side of things. My favorite outfit today is a CTS BS 703 matched to an Avet SX 5.1 with 30# Momoi braid. I have landed many really large Tog on this outfit and never felt outmatched. One incredible day on Lep's boat a few years ago I actually decked back to back fish in the 9.5-10# class on successive baits and even broke one off on the third bait up I simply could not stop. Out in the Sound, I have tamed several really nice Tog in the 8-10# class in recent years. Currently some of my really best drops are on the CT side and 2 years ago I landed my PB of 14# on this same outfit. I will post a pair of photos of a couple of DD Tog here including the PB which also measured 31”. Sadly, I was alone that day and the deck shot does not really do it justice.
Three years ago, I also started experimenting with the new fad of “jigging” Blackfish on light spinning tackle. I am far from an expert at this method and, so far, the biggest fish I have taken using this method is only 7#. I believe with these super light outfits you have to be extremely lucky to land a big Tog on tackle that makes it very hard to turn the head of any serious fish. My outfit here is a Batson XSB843 matched with a Shimano Stradic 3000 reel loaded with Suffix 20# braid. Almost all of my charter customers want to try this technique nowadays ad when the tides allow and I am working the shallower spots, generally 40’ and less this is a viable option.
So, I have rambled on long enough. Regarding the “mystique” surrounding Blackfish I will make one last observation that I think other Captains who specialize in bottom fishing will agree with. Every season I book more trips for Blackfish than any other single species. Sadly, with the often unpredictable fall weather we lose one third to one half of all the planned sailings (like last fall). In my book that certainly qualifies die hard Blackfisherman as members of a “cult”!!!
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
I use lamis and calstars and various reels like saltiga...maxwell...newells....abu garcia...once in awhile i like the light stuff...but I don't like to sweat out if a BIGGUN gets on so I don't really care about how light my tackle is. BUT the most important to me is the business end....hooks...line...and bait......I have seen people with 700.00 set ups cheap out on the business end and get nadda.....doesn't have to be "expensive" just good and suitable for your prey....keep that bait fresh and change it...OFTEN....be observant.....if someone is catching consistently and you are not.....don't look at his rod and reel (well maybe a little) look at the last 3 ft of line and what he has and how he is presenting it....be flexible...experiment....and be confident or you won't be ready when the monster inhales your bait
experiment i.e. saw a halibut caught on a mesh bag full of pork chop or sumptin bones
experiment i.e. saw a halibut caught on a mesh bag full of pork chop or sumptin bones
Savvy18
Angler
Well fellas, I'm not sure what words of mine could sufficiently follow the last several posts by Lep & Mike. I'm not even gonna try, for tonight. I think I'll just sleep on all that incredibly interesting information, digest it and come back for subsequent posts tomorrow.
Thanks to both Lep & Mike for taking the time and effort it requires for such thoughtful and well considered content...
And, not to go off topic, but it was a pleasure spending the day with you guys (and Molitor) yesterday. Great company, great food, great laughs! Always a learning experience for a young "whipper-snapper" like me
to hang with you guys and hear the tales of what was once a fantastic fishery. And, of course, it's always nice to get some delicious seafood salad & shrimp oreganata!
Thanks to both Lep & Mike for taking the time and effort it requires for such thoughtful and well considered content...
And, not to go off topic, but it was a pleasure spending the day with you guys (and Molitor) yesterday. Great company, great food, great laughs! Always a learning experience for a young "whipper-snapper" like me
to hang with you guys and hear the tales of what was once a fantastic fishery. And, of course, it's always nice to get some delicious seafood salad & shrimp oreganata!
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
I believe with these super light outfits you have to be extremely lucky to land a big Tog on tackle that makes it very hard to turn the head of any serious fish.
that's why I don't do it...or infrequently......but I see people seem to like it for some reason
that's why I don't do it...or infrequently......but I see people seem to like it for some reason
captmike28
Well-Known Angler
If you are a "meat fisherman" or have your heart set on not losing that big white chin then I agree conventional tackle is still the best way to go with this "bad ass" fish. However, I do see the appeal of really giving the Tog even more of a fighting chance to escape. What is really cool is that in the shallower spots they often run away from the boat instead of straight down like they would in deeper water. Kind of like hooking a nice Bass.
I also think the when you do land a fish, even some of the smaller specimens, on the spinner the sense of accomplishment is very high.
I also think the when you do land a fish, even some of the smaller specimens, on the spinner the sense of accomplishment is very high.
Hi Mike,
Two of my largest tog ever were caught on Light tackle long before jigging came on the scene. The first was a 15 pound female caught while flounder fishing in the mussel beds on the backside of the Ruins north side of Gardeners. The other was about the same size bucktailing for fluke east of the Ruins in about thirty feet. Both fish took off like a striper making several runs. I had another bruiser at Race Point Light porgy Fishing near slack tide. That fish was tough landing.
I agree with you that taking them jigging on Light tackle a special experience regardless of size.
Two of my largest tog ever were caught on Light tackle long before jigging came on the scene. The first was a 15 pound female caught while flounder fishing in the mussel beds on the backside of the Ruins north side of Gardeners. The other was about the same size bucktailing for fluke east of the Ruins in about thirty feet. Both fish took off like a striper making several runs. I had another bruiser at Race Point Light porgy Fishing near slack tide. That fish was tough landing.
I agree with you that taking them jigging on Light tackle a special experience regardless of size.
Savvy18
Angler
MTB: You're right. Fishing ultra light tackle puts you at a major disadvantage when it comes to landing 10+ fish. There is no doubt about it. Fishing ultra light for tog is not for everyone and certainly NOT for the faint of heart. You MUST have a mindset for it. You must be prepared to lose a scrap or two with these fish, and I have had some heart breakers (which I'm sure guys using much sturdier tackle have as well). However, there is no way to describe the sense of accomplishment you get when you land a bruiser tog in "very specific" situations. The elation is pretty rewarding. Just knowing that every time you hook a monster there's a 50/50 shot you'll lose the battle is only understood once you've done it. I've always believed that SPORT FISHING is only "sporting" when the fish has a reasonable chance to win too. If the odds are ALWAYS in your favor, is it really worth the effort?
I've been on a million boats. I've watched a million guys catch big fish with gear that was waaaay past necessary for what they were targeting. If that makes them feel good, that's great. Fishing like that is NOT for me. I'm always going to try and scale the gear down, NEVER up. We all have to do what makes us happy. BIG TOG on ultra light gear is what it's all about for me as far as fishing goes.
I've been on a million boats. I've watched a million guys catch big fish with gear that was waaaay past necessary for what they were targeting. If that makes them feel good, that's great. Fishing like that is NOT for me. I'm always going to try and scale the gear down, NEVER up. We all have to do what makes us happy. BIG TOG on ultra light gear is what it's all about for me as far as fishing goes.
Savvy18
Angler
I remember the day I caught my first 10+ tog at 17 Fathoms many years ago. I was obviously pretty excited because it took quite a few years to get it. I snapped at least 20 pictures and threw her in the cooler with a great sense of satisfaction. Until I got to the dock and watched my friend Pat cutting her up into fillets. At that moment, I had an epiphany. I realized that I hated seeing that fish be butchered. In my mind, removing that beautiful fish from the ocean was not the right thing to do. I thought to myself, that fish was worth more than a few fillets on the dinner table. I ran it through my head dozens of times after that day whenever I was fishing. I swore to myself I'd never do that again.
I have no idea how many 10+ tog I've caught since that day. What I do know is, EVERY SINGLE FISH has been returned to the ocean to fight another day...And where fishing is concerned, nothing brings a bigger smile to my face than watching them swim away!
I have no idea how many 10+ tog I've caught since that day. What I do know is, EVERY SINGLE FISH has been returned to the ocean to fight another day...And where fishing is concerned, nothing brings a bigger smile to my face than watching them swim away!
captmike28
Well-Known Angler
Hi Al,
Thanks for sharing your story about Tog at the Ruins. While most people think of that location as mainly a Fluke spot or a good rip to troll for Blues and Bass, those in the know harvest some really impressive fish of all species in that area. It is also interesting how many tines when targeting other species you wind up catching something unexpected and quite large as well. Several years ago while I was Diamond Jigging for Bass and Blues at Pigeon Rip I caught a Tog of about 8# on the Diamond! A great fight to be sure but he really had me puzzled the entire battle as I knew it was not one of the target species.
I also agree with Eddie when it comes to the true definition of "sport fishing". Although I did fish with the "meat sticks" as a kid I was always looking for a lighter and more enjoyable way of matching wits with the fish. Don't get me wrong. I never look down my nose at those using heavier tackle and wanting to ensure they come home with a great tasting dinner. Personally I like to do both, give the fish a fighting chance and also enjoy the fruits of my labor on the table. As long as we are not wasting this valuable resource then, as the saying goes, "whatever floats your boat".
Thanks for sharing your story about Tog at the Ruins. While most people think of that location as mainly a Fluke spot or a good rip to troll for Blues and Bass, those in the know harvest some really impressive fish of all species in that area. It is also interesting how many tines when targeting other species you wind up catching something unexpected and quite large as well. Several years ago while I was Diamond Jigging for Bass and Blues at Pigeon Rip I caught a Tog of about 8# on the Diamond! A great fight to be sure but he really had me puzzled the entire battle as I knew it was not one of the target species.
I also agree with Eddie when it comes to the true definition of "sport fishing". Although I did fish with the "meat sticks" as a kid I was always looking for a lighter and more enjoyable way of matching wits with the fish. Don't get me wrong. I never look down my nose at those using heavier tackle and wanting to ensure they come home with a great tasting dinner. Personally I like to do both, give the fish a fighting chance and also enjoy the fruits of my labor on the table. As long as we are not wasting this valuable resource then, as the saying goes, "whatever floats your boat".
Savvy18
Angler
captmike28 said: I also agree with Eddie when it comes to the true definition of "sport fishing". Although I did fish with the "meat sticks" as a kid I was always looking for a lighter and more enjoyable way of matching wits with the fish. Don't get me wrong. I never look down my nose at those using heavier tackle and wanting to ensure they come home with a great tasting dinner. Personally I like to do both, give the fish a fighting chance and also enjoy the fruits of my labor on the table. As long as we are not wasting this valuable resource then, as the saying goes, "whatever floats your boat".
Like Mike, and the majority of us who have been fishing tog long before the gear to target them was being built lighter, I too used some heavy tackle back in the day. I remember my Penn 320 & 310 GTI's and My Daiwa Sealine 20 SLH reels! Those were very beefy equipment compared to what I'm fishing today. And, let's not forget the clamp that we used to stabilize the reel to the rod! WOW, looking back, those were some heavy outfits.
I wish I had some of my old rods & reels just so that I could weigh them against what I'm currently fishing tog with. I'm sure it would be quite a distinct difference in weight. No doubt one of my old Penn 320 reels weighs more than my rod & reel combos do today But that's one of the great things about this game we love, sport fishing. The gear evolves. It gets lighter. Smaller. Stronger. More efficient.
Being honest, sometimes the search for the latest & best gear and designing & building rods is almost as much fun as catching the fish.
Like Mike, and the majority of us who have been fishing tog long before the gear to target them was being built lighter, I too used some heavy tackle back in the day. I remember my Penn 320 & 310 GTI's and My Daiwa Sealine 20 SLH reels! Those were very beefy equipment compared to what I'm fishing today. And, let's not forget the clamp that we used to stabilize the reel to the rod! WOW, looking back, those were some heavy outfits.
I wish I had some of my old rods & reels just so that I could weigh them against what I'm currently fishing tog with. I'm sure it would be quite a distinct difference in weight. No doubt one of my old Penn 320 reels weighs more than my rod & reel combos do today
But that's one of the great things about this game we love, sport fishing. The gear evolves. It gets lighter. Smaller. Stronger. More efficient.Being honest, sometimes the search for the latest & best gear and designing & building rods is almost as much fun as catching the fish.
Amen to that. ??captmike28 said: I also agree with Eddie when it comes to the true definition of "sport fishing". Although I did fish with the "meat sticks" as a kid I was always looking for a lighter and more enjoyable way of matching wits with the fish. Don't get me wrong. I never look down my nose at those using heavier tackle and wanting to ensure they come home with a great tasting dinner. Personally I like to do both, give the fish a fighting chance and also enjoy the fruits of my labor on the table. As long as we are not wasting this valuable resource then, as the saying goes, "whatever floats your boat".
Like Mike, and the majority of us who have been fishing tog long before the gear to target them was being built lighter, I too used some heavy tackle back in the day. I remember my Penn 320 & 310 GTI's and My Daiwa Sealine 20 SLH reels! Those were very beefy equipment compared to what I'm fishing today. And, let's not forget the clamp that we used to stabilize the reel to the rod! WOW, looking back, those were some heavy outfits.
I wish I had some of my old rods & reels just so that I could weigh them against what I'm currently fishing tog with. I'm sure it would be quite a distinct difference in weight. No doubt one of my old Penn 320 reels weighs more than my rod & reel combos do today
Being honest, sometimes the search for the latest & best gear and designing & building rods is almost as much fun as catching the fish.
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