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[BoatGuy]

With nobody really fishing for them over the last 20 years you would think they would show signs of rebuilding by now.

Funny you should say that. I was walking my dog. I saw some young kids walking with poles. I asked them if they were going fishing and what they were going for. To my surprise they said flounders. I asked do you actually catch any. They said they did.

 

[OVERBORED]

hunter back of jamaica bay,,,,,,,,,,some big ones back there ,,,,,,,and off my dock down garrison creek,,,,,,,,2013 ,,,,,><)))):>
><))):>,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

MOJO. I made 2 trips in Jbay last year as I do every year. This was the first year I didn't catch a keeper. Caught a bunch of Bass on the flounder rig and 2 short flounder.

I'll try again next year because it's in my blood and I enjoy bouncing my yellow sinker and freezing my arse!

 

[Leprechaun]

The very last flounder trip on the Leprechaun - May of 2009. Had my old friend Donn/DCBassin aboard and we ran from Seaford all the way up Raritan Bay, within sight of the Outerbridge Crossing to get 'em. That was a VERY long way to go to fill a pail, but at that point in time it was make the run or not fish for flounder.

 

[Pangaroo]

The year was 1972, I was eight years old. My dad had a little Garvey boat he used for duck hunting. In the spring it became a bay boat and flounder fishing in the bay.

I was also 8 years old in 1972 . I was lucky to spend 2 summers out in Montauk-1972,1973 . I remember going out there almost every weekend during the summer and the 5 of us slept on our cabin cruiser docked at Snug Harbor Marina. 1973 we docked at Star Island Marina , I remember going into the woods next door and shooting our BB guns. Fished for Fluke in the Rips and caught the biggest fluke of my life- 9 1/2 pounds- We fished the Race for Bluefish and saw how rough it was there when the tide turned and then the Tournament Of The Full Moon that Montauk Marine held for Striped Bass . Fished under the Lighthouse with clams . One income family ( father was an entry level Engineer working for NYC) that was able to own a house in Nassau County ( worth $800,000 today) send 3 kids to Catholic School, have a brand new 1973 Ford LTD 4 door, have a Boat out in Montauk 2 summers. So inexpensive to live on Long Island back then.
For some crazy reason I don't remember ever going flounder fishing until about 1978. All the fishing I did and I never went flounder fishing. Caught a flounder off the back of the Captain Al in the dark before it sailed . That was 1974 and probably the first flounder I ever caught.
Fishing today is much better than in the 1970's other than Whiting and Flounder Fishing. Russian Trawlers wiped out the Fluke and they weren't so numerous , same with Porgies and Sea Bass . Everybody went out for bluefish . The Acid Waters . Cod fishing was horrible, remember Freeport Party boats filled up with 50 people coming back with 10 Cod. Super dedicated fishermen back then ! Saw those Russian trawlers out past the Cholera Banks. Remember big rust colored factory ships.
Flounder , Whiting, Ling , cod all disappeared at the same time , right after they went crazy in the late 1980's and destroyed the fluke stock. When they couldn't catch fluke they went after everything else that swam out there. When there was nothing else to catch during the winter, recreational and commercials targeted blackfish and caused blackfish to decline. Saw the whole thing happen.
Winter Flounder can't make a comeback inshore because the population isn't large enough to overcome all the predation /all the other environmental stuff. The DEC has to stock flounder in the bay and ban any commercial fishing where they summer. Flounder live where they're born, when you wipe out a local population there won't be other flounder coming in to take their place.
If only flounder disappeared then it might be disease, global warming, pollution, but they went into decline the same time whiting, ling, Fluke, cod disappeared.

 

[captmike28]

The very last flounder trip on the Leprechaun - May of 2009. Had my old friend Donn/DCBassin aboard and we ran from Seaford all the way up Raritan Bay, within sight of the Outerbridge Crossing to get 'em. That was a VERY long way to go to fill a pail, but at that point in time it was make the run or not fish for flounder.
View attachment 88668

Those are some very nice sized Flounder, Lep. And I also remember sailing with you from Fred's dock in Seaford many times in the past. Definitely the "good old days"!

 

[Pangaroo]

Those are some very nice sized Flounder, Lep. And I also remember sailing with you from Fred's dock in Seaford many times in the past. Definitely the "good old days"!

Those Raritan Bay Flounder survived because they probably summered in water where the commercials couldn't target them. Looks like anglers over targeted them and the floundering isn't good there anymore.
At least 15 years the Russians pounded the fish stocks off the East Coast and only winter flounder, whiting and ling weren't affected because the Foreign fleet couldn't target them inside 12 miles.Those are the biggest clues why all those fish disappeared.

 

[OVERBORED]

We all know how and why the fish disappeared.

Why haven't they returned?

Why is a weakfish over 10lbs or a cod over 40 something we haven't seen in decades?

Water temps? Loss of habitat?

Commercial friend of mine was approached by a fisheries biologist about the scarcity of bluefish. He said there were plenty of blues and proceeded to take the biologist offshore and in 1 tow, catch 15,000lbs!

Fish have adapted to changing environmental conditions. We're just slow to realize this.

 

[Pangaroo]

Bluefish disappeared in the 40's and 50's , maybe they just relocate to some place else for a while. If you look at all the fisheries, just whiting and winter flounder never returned. Maybe Whiting just moved offshore for a while ? Maybe they move back inshore again . Or maybe whiting are like Flounder and live their whole lives near where they were born and after the inshore whiting stock got wiped out in the 1980's/1990's there was not enough fish to build a population. Ling survived because they hung around wrecks/rocks. All the other fishing has gotten much better the last 10 years.
But overall the fishing today is way better than in the 1970's. Best winter/spring fishing we had in the last 60 years was 1980-1987 .

 

[hawk375]

maybe too many bass?

 

[Pangaroo]

We all know how and why the fish disappeared.

Why haven't they returned?

Why is a weakfish over 10lbs or a cod over 40 something we haven't seen in decades?

Water temps? Loss of habitat?

Commercial friend of mine was approached by a fisheries biologist about the scarcity of bluefish. He said there were plenty of blues and proceeded to take the biologist offshore and in 1 tow, catch 15,000lbs!

Fish have adapted to changing environmental conditions. We're just slow to realize this.

Re: Weakfish over 10 pounds- probably the small weakfish are able to swim thru the nets and the big ones get caught. That's the only explanation I can think of. Cod have been beaten down so far that fish can't live to be 40 pounds.

 

[OVERBORED]

Bluefish disappeared in the 40's and 50's , maybe they just relocate to some place else for a while. If you look at all the fisheries, just whiting and winter flounder never returned. Maybe Whiting just moved offshore for a while ? Maybe they move back inshore again . Or maybe whiting are like Flounder and live their whole lives near where they were born and after the inshore whiting stock got wiped out in the 1980's/1990's there was not enough fish to build a population. Ling survived because they hung around wrecks/rocks. All the other fishing has gotten much better the last 10 years.
But overall the fishing today is way better than in the 1970's. Best winter/spring fishing we had in the last 60 years was 1980-1987 .

I couldn't disagree with you more.

However, as for whiting, there's plenty around. Only boats going out for them are in New Hampshire and the fishing is good sometimes "like the old days"

Picture is 2 yrs old.(Not me..lol)

 

[Pangaroo]

I miss drifting for Whiting near Ambrose Tower, at 17 Fathoms . On a nice calm day it was like fishing for Fluke. They disappeared so quickly , I remember going to 17 Fathoms in early May 1991 and we caught a bunch of whiting drifting there. Nothing the next year , nothing the next 33 years. Either they all swam away or the fish were wiped out by commercials. There was a Freeport Party Boat mate on the other website a while back who also worked on a whiting Dragger, said without a doubt the whiting disappeared in the NY Bight because of commercial fishing. I hope they swim back again .

 

[Pangaroo]

New Hampshire also stocks winter flounder. NY was afraid to stock because they worried about disease. All NY spends money on are DEC Officers who give out tickets. If you look at everything Saltwater the DEC has been involved with , they never spend anything . The artificial reef material/labor was all donated, the Boat Ramp land out in Southold was donated and Fishing Fund money was used to build the ramp. And it took 10 years from the time the land was donated to build the ramp. Probably the 2nd most popular Bay for fishing on Long Island after Great South Bay and that new Southold Boat ramp was the first ever State Boat Ramp on Peconic Bay ???? No doubt there's a clause in the Boat Ramp Contract that gives control of the ramp to Southold after 20 years . That's how those people operate.