And so it begins in earnest. Large scale wind projects in the North East!!

Roccus7

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Reminds me of the classic definition of "Irish Foreplay", you know... "Brace yerself Bridget!!"

Federal government approves huge wind project off Massachusetts coast​

pressherald.com/2021/05/11/federal-government-approves-huge-wind-project-off-massachusetts-coast/

By PATRICK WHITTLE May 11, 2021
Three wind turbines from the Deepwater Wind project stand off Block Island, R.I., in 2016. The federal government on Tuesday approved an offshore wind project off Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

Three wind turbines from the Deepwater Wind project stand off Block Island, R.I., in 2016. The federal government on Tuesday approved an offshore wind project off Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts. Michael Dwyer/Associated Press

An offshore wind project off Massachusetts that would create enough electricity to power 400,000 homes and is touted by backers as a key piece of America’s transition to renewable energy was approved Tuesday by the federal government.
The 800-megawatt Vineyard Wind project, south of Martha’s Vineyard near Cape Cod, would be the first utility-scale wind power development in federal waters. The nearly $3 billion project is a critical part of the Biden administration’s plan to grow renewable energy in the U.S.

The approval of the project, which could be completed in about two years, came after decades of debate about the sustainability of U.S. offshore wind. Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland said the approval will create thousands of jobs and is a step toward President Biden’s plan for 30 gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030.

“It will create jobs that will support families, boost local economies and address climate injustice,” Haaland said. “More importantly, it will create a new generation of clean energy jobs and leave a livable planet for future generations.”

The project would consist of up to 84 wind turbines located 12 nautical miles off Martha’s Vineyard. The project and Ocean Wind, a proposed 1,100-megawatt offshore wind project off New Jersey, are keystones in the Biden administration’s push to grow offshore wind as a way to fight climate change and create jobs.

Vineyard Wind follows the scrapped Cape Wind project, which failed after opposition from some high-profile liberals and conservatives alike. Supporters of Vineyard Wind have said the newer project is better sited than Cape Wind, which would’ve been closer to shore, and that it’s more in tune with today’s political climate.

But Vineyard Wind also faces opposition. Commercial fishing businesses have said the growth of offshore wind projects off the East Coast would make it difficult for them to harvest valuable seafood species such as scallops and lobsters.

The Responsible Offshore Development Alliance, a coalition of fishing groups and businesses, characterized the approval of the project as a sellout to multinational corporations that hope to profit on offshore wind in the U.S.

“For the past decade, fishermen have participated in offshore wind meetings whenever they were asked and produced reasonable requests only to be met with silence,” said Anne Hawkins, executive director of the group. “From this silence now emerges unilateral action and a clear indication that those in authority care more about multinational businesses and energy politics than our environment, domestic food sources, or U.S. citizens.”

The project is a $2.8 billion joint venture of Avangrid Renewables and Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners. Vineyard Wind CEO Lars T. Pedersen called the approval “not about the start of a single project, but the launch of a new industry.” He also said the approval “means the jobs, economic benefits and clean energy revolution” associated with the project project can come to fruition.

Environmental groups and clean power advocates trumpeted Tuesday’s approval. Heather Zichal, chief executive officer of the American Clean Power Association, called it a “historic day for clean energy and for our country” and a sign that renewable energy is on the rise in the U.S.

“Now is the time to push forward on offshore wind, catch up to global competitors, and decarbonize our electric grid, so that the U.S. can deliver economic and environmental benefits to our citizens and combat climate change,” Zichal said.
 
At least the dead birds will be washed away by the sea. I read an article earlier today about how much lithium carbonate we'll need for all these mandated electric cars. If we want to be material independent there are going to be a lot of open pit mines coming to the U.S.


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It's shocking to me that this was approved. I thought for sure they would take the path of the Not In My Backyard Hamptonites who were able to shut down the wind farm off of their beaches because they didn't want to interfere with their view.

Yes, these are the very same people forcing these things on us. But that's another story.
 
At least the dead birds will be washed away by the sea. I read an article earlier today about how much lithium carbonate we'll need for all these mandated electric cars. If we want to be material independent there are going to be a lot of open pit mines coming to the U.S.


View attachment 33532
so you're against strip coal mining & coal ponds ?
 
It's shocking to me that this was approved. I thought for sure they would take the path of the Not In My Backyard Hamptonites who were able to shut down the wind farm off of their beaches because they didn't want to interfere with their view.

Yes, these are the very same people forcing these things on us. But that's another story.
Yes they are George. One of the things that worry me more than anything else is the fact when multinational businesses and energy politics control all these large projects that "We want" we (The US) will loose control of a system that could shut this country down. Multinational business control means building a system then at any given time sell it off to the highest bidder. We all know who that will most likley be. When we loose control of our power whilst trying to improve our environment we might as well place our heads between our legs and well you know.
 
With this much money and a bunch of worldwide corrupt politicians and greedy businesses involved there was no doubt in my mind this day would come.

When I went to some of the first "public input meetings" run by Deepwater Wind in 2017 they had already mapped out the Lease area off Martha's Vineyard with a proposal of about 40 turbines. Now they are talking about upwards of 84!!! Talk about a navigational nightmare and a real obstacle to many different forms of fishing.

Ironically, less than a month ago I received a "feel good" video from Capt Tony DiLernia, a former Freeport Party/Charter Boat operator who is a NYS representative on the MAFMC. He is also working in an advisory position for the Recreational Fisheries Liaison for the NYS Energy Research council. The film really played up all the supposed positive aspects of clean energy and the terrific new fishing opportunities created by the structures.

We exchanged a few cordial emails as I asked many of the same questions I did 5 years ago about negative impacts on the local fish populations due to EMP's, bottom disruption while laying the cables, dismantling and disposal of the hardware following the anticipated 20 year active lifespan. Essentially I got back the same lame answers offered at the start of this whole process.

Then I moved on to the real economic cost of this supposed utopian concept of limitless clean energy. When I asked him why everyone of these projects needed ridiculous amounts of government subsidies to make the even remotely feasible the radio silence kicked in!!!

I am guessing around now that the folks on the Vineyard got an even more generous pay off than the $29M given to the Town of East Hampton to allow this to nonsense to move forward.

I still say we need to put much more effort into Natural Gas. Been heating and cooling my home now flawlessly for 15 years with virtually no costly repairs to my burner and a much lower cost than oil heat. Also seems like a pretty clean alternative to me.
 
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thats the answer I would expect from a backwards person.. still didn't answer my question ?

I'll try to put in simpler terms.

@jpd was pointing out the infinitely flexible morality of the people who demonize fossil fuels by pointing to strip mining as a blight on the landscape, but are perfectly fine with it as long as it's for their fantasy of "clean" energy.

You really didn't think he was endorsing strip mines did you?
 
I'll try to put in simpler terms.

@jpd was pointing out the infinitely flexible morality of the people who demonize fossil fuels by pointing to strip mining as a blight on the landscape, but are perfectly fine with it as long as it's for their fantasy of "clean" energy.

You really didn't think he was endorsing strip mines did you?
Let me try to make is as simple as I can..who's says renewable energy is a fantasy ? you ? hate to break this to you some people like indoor plumbing ..
 
With this much money and a bunch of worldwide corrupt politicians and greedy businesses involved there was no doubt in my mind this day would come.

When I went to some of the first "public input meetings" run by Deepwater Wind in 2017 they had already mapped out the Lease area off Martha's Vineyard with a proposal of about 40 turbines. Now they are talking about upwards of 84!!! Talk about a navigational nightmare and a real obstacle to many different forms of fishing.

Ironically, less than a month ago I received a "feel good" video from Capt Tony DiLernia, a former Freeport Party/Charter Boat operator who is a NYS representative on the MAFMC. He is also working in an advisory position for the Recreational Fisheries Liaison for the NYS Energy Research council. The film really played up all the supposed positive aspects of clean energy and the terrific new fishing opportunities created by the structures.

We exchanged a few cordial emails as I asked many of the same questions I did 5 years ago about negative impacts on the local fish populations due to EMP's, bottom disruption while laying the cables, dismantling and disposal of the hardware following the anticipated 20 year active lifespan. Essentially I got back the same lame answers offered at the start of this whole process.

Then I moved on to the real economic cost of this supposed utopian concept of limitless clean energy. When I asked him why everyone of these projects needed ridiculous amounts of government subsidies to make the even remotely feasible the radio silence kicked in!!!

I am guessing around now that the folks on the Vineyard got an even more generous pay off than the $29M given to the Town of East Hampton to allow this to nonsense to move forward.

I still say we need to put much more effort into Natural Gas. Been heating and cooling my home now flawlessly for 15 years with virtually no costly repairs to my burner and a much lower cost than oil heat. Also seems like a pretty clean alternative to me.
Mike I have no idea is offshore wind farms work...and being a fisherman not a fan of the big fans,,,
But with two engineers in the family that have careers in renewable energy..I will tell you this its hear to stay...I also switch to gas twenty years ago & its great..But the younger generation wants elect cars , solar & wind,,its their future , coal is dead and oil may not be to far behind....

They are more willing to be their future in it than OPEC or Russia oil...all the major car company's along with USPS , UPS . FedEx and Amazon are building 100% elect fleets ...cant stop progress..I just hope it work's ?
 
I came across some stories about fishing in the Gulf Of Mexico from TX, LA, etc. and charter captains specifically brag about trips that target the oil rigs in the Gulf that have become magnets for fish.
I understand change is difficult but I find it hard to believe there can't be some positive effects of this?
 
Let me try to make is as simple as I can..who's says renewable energy is a fantasy ? you ? hate to break this to you some people like indoor plumbing ..

Question asked, question answered:

Mike I have no idea is offshore wind farms work...and being a fisherman not a fan of the big fans,,,

Says anybody who knows how electricity actually works. Unfortunately the mad drive to ineffective "renewables" is being pushed by people who think electricity comes from that thing in the wall.

Is it going to come? Sure. Some day when the technology is cost effective and doesn't have to be propped up by massive theft from the American taxpayer and utility user. But we're nowhere near there yet. Right now California is burning to the ground because the distribution infrastructure is overloaded. Now let's everybody plug in their car. How do you think that's going to work out?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to work towards cleaner energy, but as I alluded earlier, the current technology has it's own set of huge drawbacks that everybody is either blissfully ignorant of, or just happily glosses over because it feels so wonderful to save the planet. So go ahead, start strip mining for rare earths for those special batteries and generators that will power the bright, bright green future.
 
I'm not saying it's a bad idea to work towards cleaner energy, but as I alluded earlier, the current technology has it's own set of huge drawbacks that everybody is either blissfully ignorant of, or just happily glosses over because it feels so wonderful to save the planet. So go ahead, start strip mining for rare earths for those special batteries and generators that will power the bright, bright green future.

There are a LOT of compromises that the green element better be prepared to make.

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I came across some stories about fishing in the Gulf Of Mexico from TX, LA, etc. and charter captains specifically brag about trips that target the oil rigs in the Gulf that have become magnets for fish.
I understand change is difficult but I find it hard to believe there can't be some positive effects of this?
Those rigs are totally different animals. In fact, there are different types of windmills that use a single in-ground bottom structure that is not conducive to attracting fish. There is so much to this story that we don't know yet that it's hard to tell what we're going to end up with.

I did some digging into this and I hope to have a podcast on it soon, but you would be surprised by some of the things I've learned so far. Unfortunately, they will not talk to me as they wanted my questions in advance of an interview. Not happening. But the first red flag to me is their 15-year life expectancy and the fact they have no intention of removing them after they're decommissioned. Eventually, there will be hundreds of acres of wind farms off of our shores.

Another question is why the staging area will be Port Jefferson? I was told due to sea conditions out east, but I'm thinking it was the spot of least resistance. Also are you aware that when they don't produce enough electricity that they are backed up by the local electric companies? So they have a hand in this thing also.

I'm all for renewable electricity., but I'm just not sold on this yet.
 
@george the "clot thickens" in Maine since we're getting "floating" windmills with multiple mooring anchors, making the no entry perimeter much, much larger than a fixed rig.
 
I have commented on this issue a few times before and, in general, I am not opposed to finding newer and potentially cleaner sources of energy.

What I fear most people are missing, which Avenger clearly stated, is that the best and most cost effective way of making the transition has yet to be developed. If this really was the economic and environmental answer all rolled up into one there is no doubt in my mind the big oil producers would have been all in a long time ago. Once again, I am very uncomfortable with the need for the government to subsidize these things to the hilt. Can you say Solyndra? Ultimately we all know what that means to our individual taxes from many directions.

Old Mud also makes a good point about our brief stint being "energy independent" under that last administration,. Most of the companies building these projects are indeed foreign and may not necessarily have our best interest in mind at all times.

I am also concerned about the "aftermath" when these devices reach the end of their useful lifetime. I had been led to believe about 20 years but George is saying 15...that's pretty scary. And I also remember the article Roccus recently posted about this new "floating rig" technology which will further restrict the amount of ocean available to both fishing and navigation.

Overall I believe the transition to a newer form of energy must go a lot slower. Finally, have we all forgotten about Nuclear Power? Or are we all still terrified of another 3 mile island incident when the majority of those plants operate safely?

Finally, you can call me a dinosaur but I do agree with Capt. Ritchie about ditching the cell phones and computers; maybe using our brains a little more?!
 
I have commented on this issue a few times before and, in general, I am not opposed to finding newer and potentially cleaner sources of energy.

What I fear most people are missing, which Avenger clearly stated, is that the best and most cost effective way of making the transition has yet to be developed. If this really was the economic and environmental answer all rolled up into one there is no doubt in my mind the big oil producers would have been all in a long time ago. Once again, I am very uncomfortable with the need for the government to subsidize these things to the hilt. Can you say Solyndra? Ultimately we all know what that means to our individual taxes from many directions.

Old Mud also makes a good point about our brief stint being "energy independent" under that last administration,. Most of the companies building these projects are indeed foreign and may not necessarily have our best interest in mind at all times.

I am also concerned about the "aftermath" when these devices reach the end of their useful lifetime. I had been led to believe about 20 years but George is saying 15...that's pretty scary. And I also remember the article Roccus recently posted about this new "floating rig" technology which will further restrict the amount of ocean available to both fishing and navigation.

Overall I believe the transition to a newer form of energy must go a lot slower. Finally, have we all forgotten about Nuclear Power? Or are we all still terrified of another 3 mile island incident when the majority of those plants operate safely?

Finally, you can call me a dinosaur but I do agree with Capt. Ritchie about ditching the cell phones and computers; maybe using our brains a little more?!

This ^^^^ .... squared.

I was also going to touch on nuclear, and how everybody misplaces their excrement as soon as it it is mentioned.

The propaganda has really done it's work.
 
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