And so it begins in earnest. Large scale wind projects in the North East!!

Anyway because he was for repealing the Act had nothing to do with his political views. He was in fact a Hero !! A hero is NOT defined by politics. It is defined by Deed.

Attempting to repeal an act that protects American jobs and shipbuilding from unfair foreign competition has nothing to do with his political views? How do you figure that?

You are right about one thing. What he did in war sure doesn't reflect on what he did in peacetime. How could he fight so hard against the forces that would seek to destroy freedom, but then go and do their work for them in political office? As far as I'm concerned whatever respect he earned by his deeds prior are forever tainted by his deeds while supposedly representing the American people in office. And yes, the things you do as a politician are deeds.
 

Old Mud

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Dec 31, 2018
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Ok im out. There are no winners in political discussions. None, that is in fact just what i think is wrong with such discussions. No one should expect everyone should think like him. All people do different "deeds" that others do not approve of. One has to live with that, change it or forget it. The people that he went to work for were NOT the enemy. They were the American people.

That's pretty much the way all politicians start out. Of course that only seems to please half the people. The other half hate them. Just like political discussions, instead of keeping your mind and using your energy to help a problem even if it means some compromise Each side thinks the other are assholes. And in a way they are right.

The end.
 
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Ok im out. There are no winners in political discussions. None, that is in fact just what i think is wrong with such discussions. No one should expect everyone should think like him. All people do different "deeds" that others do not approve of. One has to live with that, change it or forget it. The people that he went to work for were NOT the enemy. They were the American people.

That's pretty much the way all politicians start out. Of course that only seems to please half the people. The other half hate them. Just like political discussions, instead of keeping your mind and using your energy to help a problem even if it means some compromise Each side thinks the other are assholes. And in a way they are right.

The end.

Whatever. I'm sure a lot of them start out idealogically minded, but they all lose it in a big hurry. The guy was a lousy politician and I just don't understand why everybody wants to use his war record to give him a pass for that.

BTW, he didn't just vote to repeal the Jones Act because he was from a landlocked state and simply didn't understand it. That would be bad enough. But he constantly introduced legislation and actively campaigned to repeal it. Probably getting donations either from shipping companies looking for cheap or foreign interests looking to get into our market. We've seen how well that's working out for us in other markets. But hey, screw the workers and national security, as long as there's a quick buck to be made. It wouldn't effect any of his constituents, being from a landlocked state and all.
 

PaulE

New Angler
Mar 10, 2021
9
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Why the vitriol and focus on McCaine on this? Confusing for a new guy... but isn't he dead?

If you're concerned about American maritime jobs, you should be speaking out against Senator Mike Lee of Utah and Congressman Mike McClintock of California. They re-introduced legislation to repeal the Jones Act last month, to allow all qualified foreign-flagged and crewed vessels to engage in domestic trade between American ports. And Senator Lee has introduced three bills to repeal/reform the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886, which requires foreign-flagged passenger vessels to stop in a foreign port when sailing between two US ports (A passenger vessel version of the Jones Act). As Old Mud says, [foreign] corporate money speaking through politicians once again. Although all large cruise ships are foreign-flagged, there are several small-scale US cruise companies (and shipyards that build the vessels, and mariners that crew them) running smaller vessels that would be eviscerated by foreign-flagged competition. Right now the PVSA is waived, mainly to allow Alaskan cruises to sail while Canada has a ban on cruise ships in its waters until February of '22.
 
Why the vitriol and focus on McCaine on this? Confusing for a new guy... but isn't he dead?

If you're concerned about American maritime jobs, you should be speaking out against Senator Mike Lee of Utah and Congressman Mike McClintock of California. They re-introduced legislation to repeal the Jones Act last month, to allow all qualified foreign-flagged and crewed vessels to engage in domestic trade between American ports. And Senator Lee has introduced three bills to repeal/reform the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886, which requires foreign-flagged passenger vessels to stop in a foreign port when sailing between two US ports (A passenger vessel version of the Jones Act). As Old Mud says, [foreign] corporate money speaking through politicians once again. Although all large cruise ships are foreign-flagged, there are several small-scale US cruise companies (and shipyards that build the vessels, and mariners that crew them) running smaller vessels that would be eviscerated by foreign-flagged competition. Right now the PVSA is waived, mainly to allow Alaskan cruises to sail while Canada has a ban on cruise ships in its waters until February of '22.

I never liked him while he was alive either, and I haven't stopped disliking him or his record even though he's pushing up daisies.

You are correct though, these two need a good talking-to as well. Hopefully the rest of the legislative branch makes sure that it goes nowhere.
 

Roccus7

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OK, how about getting back on topic, especially seeing that Montauk is for sale...

For Lease: Windmill Space in the Atlantic Between Long Island and New Jersey​

The proposed lease sale is part of the Biden administration's push to develop 30,000 megawatts of offshore wind power by 2030.

For Lease: Windmill Space in the Atlantic Between Long Island and New Jersey

The Biden administration is offering for lease to wind farm developers a section of the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Montauk, N.Y.

The Biden administration is offering for lease to wind farm developers a section of the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Montauk, N.Y. Credit...Pat O'Malley for The New York Times

WASHINGTON — The Biden administration on Friday announced that it would begin the formal process of selling leases to develop offshore wind farms in shallow waters between Long Island and New Jersey as part of its push to transition the nation to renewable energy.

The proposed sale, the first of the Biden administration, includes eight lease areas in the New York Bight, a triangular area in the Atlantic Ocean between Cape May in New Jersey and Montauk Point on the eastern tip of Long Island. Administration officials estimated wind turbines there could generate more than seven gigawatts of electricity — enough to power more than 2.6 million homes.

The move is part of efforts by the Biden administration to jump-start the country’s offshore wind sector. Last month, it gave final approval to the nation’s first commercial-scale offshore wind farm off the coast of Martha’s Vineyard and said it would open California’s coast to wind farms. Earlier this week, the administration said it was examining whether to bring wind farms to the Gulf of Mexico. President Biden has set a goal of generating 30,000 megawatts of electricity from offshore wind nationwide by 2030.

That contrasts sharply with former President Donald J. Trump, who disparaged wind turbines, claiming that they destroyed property values, caused cancer and killed birds. His administration favored the development of fossil fuels and disputed the scientific consensus that the emissions produced by the burning of oil, gas and coal are driving climate change.

Mr. Trump began his administration by offering 73 million acres in waters off the coasts of Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida for oil and gas exploration and ended it by selling oil and gas drilling rights in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska. The Biden administration last week suspended the drilling leases in the Arctic refuge.

“Climate change poses an existential threat, not just to our environment, but to our health, our communities, and our economic well-being,” Interior Secretary Deb Haaland said in a statement. She called the development of offshore wind and other renewable energy resources “an important piece of addressing this reality.”

Interior’s Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, which oversees offshore activity, designated the New York Bight a “priority offshore wind area” in March, a first step before issuing new leases to wind developers. That was slated to occur in 2019 but the Trump administration did not meet the deadline.

Representative Kathleen Rice, Democrat of New York, said in a statement that she and other lawmakers have been urging lease sales since August. The Biden administration announcement, she said, means “Long Island is poised to help lead the way in America’s clean energy revolution.”

According to a Department of the Interior map, the areas slated for potential offshore wind development are roughly 14 miles off the coast of New York and about 26 miles from New Jersey. That distance makes it unlikely that wind turbines will be visible from land but officials noted that details will be more clear when companies file proposals, and that could be years from now.

A 2020 study by Wood Mackenzie, an international energy consulting firm, found that the development of offshore wind in the New York Bight would support 32,200 jobs and $3.3 billion in wages annually.

The lease sale “not only opens a door to investment in New York, but will support jobs and businesses throughout the U.S.,” said Erik Milito, president of the National Ocean Industries Association, which represents offshore oil, gas and wind producers.

But the fishing industry says that the wind farms will conflict with prime areas where scallops, clams and other seafood are caught, and that the federal government has ignored its concerns.

“Fishermen really haven’t been included as co-planners or trusted participants in offshore wind planning. Everything is really one-sided,” said Annie Hawkins, executive director of the Responsible Offshore Development Alliance, which advocates for the fishing industry.

The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management is proposing several stipulations as part of the lease sale — including a provision that would require labor agreements.

The new rules would require companies that win lease awards to “make every reasonable effort” to enter into a project labor agreement covering construction in the lease area. There also is a proposed requirement for companies to create “mechanisms to provide benefits to underserved communities” as well as enhanced communication with fishing communities and others.

The Interior Department will hold a 60-day comment period for public feedback on the lease sale and the proposed new requirements before it issues a final notice announcing the date of the lease sale.

Offshore wind has been booming for more than a decade in Europe, where thousands of turbines now dot the coasts. The technology has been slower to take off in the United States, which currently has just two tiny wind farms operating near Rhode Island and Virginia.

But wind power is primed to develop quickly along the East Coast, with recent commitments from Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and Virginia to buy more than 25,000 megawatts of offshore wind power by 2035, according to the American Clean Power Association.
 

george

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I read that they've reduced the number of mills to 12, but commercial fishermen aren't happy. So far RI coms turned down 12-million in relief funds for lost fishing grounds/access. I'm wondering what NY coms will be compensated?

I also read that they will be installed by ships that, for the first time, are designed specifically for windmill installations. I'm wondering how that is going to look inside of Port Jefferson Harbor, and the potential of a navigation nightmare. I still wonder why they need to leave from the middle of Long Island to bring them out past Montauk. But that's another story I guess.
 

george

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It looks to me that the commercial fisherman are going to be well compensated. With all of the money being thrown around, 15 mil is nothing to this billion-dollar project. You watch them hold out through the comment period and end up with a much better deal. And that's just RI. What about CT and NY? This has the potential to be a cash cow for the industry which will probably find plenty of fish anyhow.

This happened back in the 70's when GE gave the coms 7 million is lost revenue for dumping PSB's in the river. Sadly many coms in those days weren't great at reporting catches and couldn't prove their losses. Hopefully the same doesn't happen here.

Fishing group: 'It's just not a good deal'​

But the Fishermen's Advisory Board in Rhode Island is opposing the package, according to a report in the Providence Journal. A lawyer for the group, Marisa Desautel, said the group has "serious concerns with the lack of information provided by Orsted" about the mitigation fund, including how it will be paid out. The package, to be paid over 30 years (or reduced to $5.2 million if taken as an upfront payment), was below a scientific study that estimated potential losses to fishermen of $15 million to $40.4 million, according to the paper.

"It's just not a good deal," said Desautel. "We think the impacts are going to be intense and potentially have a greater impact during construction."

The companies had already agreed to space the turbines one nautical mile apart in a concession that the developers said would address shipping and commercial fishing concerns in the turbine fields. Meaghan Wims, a spokeswoman for the developers, said commercial trawlers would continue to be able to fish among the turbines, but Desautel said the fishermen she represents "don't think they can safely navigate through that area, and boating insurance is a major issue."

Orsted and Eversource's statement said the Rhode Island Coastal Resources Management Council staff is recommending a "consistency certificate" for the project, or permit, to move forward. A vote by the council could come as early as next week, after a public comment session.

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Newer models have more capacity, companies say​

The reduction in turbines won't reduce the project's power output of 130 megawatts, enough to power up to 70,000 homes, the companies have said. Newer turbine models are taller and have greater power capacity. South Fork is expected to use 11-megawatt turbines, Wims said.

Asked if the companies were prepared to offer a similar compensation package for New York fishermen who trawl in that area, Wims said they are eligible for compensation for "gear loss due to interaction with project equipment activities, and for temporary displacement of commercial fishing during construction, maintenance and decommissioning.

LI fisherman says his losses in thousands​

But one Long Island fisherman who applied for compensation had his claim, and a subsequent appeal, rejected. Montauk lobsterman Vinny Damm claimed in papers submitted last year an Orsted survey boat destroyed or lost thousands of dollars in gear while in waters around his traps. Orsted, he said, denied its boats were responsible. Wims declined to comment on "any individual gear-loss claim."

Attorney Desautel said the same is happening to fishermen in Rhode Island waters. "Fishermen are suffering real harm," due to gear loss from the survey work, she said, adding, "None of their claims have been paid out."

Wims said New York fishermen who fish in federal waters impacted by the project are "subject to an ongoing process at the state and federal level" for a potential compensation package. Fishermen have been demanding a compensation package for New York for years.

Wims noted that South Fork Wind Farm has "committed to five years of fisheries research" as part of the state permitting process.

Separately on Tuesday, Orsted and Eversource said their Sunrise Wind offshore wind power project for the Long Island electric grid will employ what's expected to be the first American-made offshore wind installation vessel. To date, the vast majority of that work is done by European vessels. The new boat is being built in Texas by a consortium of companies led by Dominion Energy.

he first U.S. offshore wind project was built off Block Island by Deepwater Wind using a Norwegian offshore wind construction vessel. Orsted, based in Denmark, later acquired Deepwater. Sunrise Wind is expected to be in service by 2024
 

george

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If commercial fisherman are getting multi million dollar offers to to loss of revnure due to 12 Turbines, how much will they deserve when we plant 174 of them?

Also, I have been told that the Initial 12 turbine build will stage in Port Jefferson. I hope it's not going to look like the rendering below.

A rendering of a proposed Equinor wind-farm assembly facility. Credit: Equinor

Wind farm review to begin
Plan calls for 174 turbines off LI South Shore
By Mark Harrington
The Biden administration on Thursday said it will begin an environmental review of the construction and operation plan for a massive offshore wind farm project off Long Island’s South Shore.
The federal review of the Empire Wind project by Norway-based Equinor is an important step in the construction and operation of 174 turbines 15 miles from the South Shore. Equinor was awarded its first state contract in 2019 to supply 816 megawatts of power to the state grid, connecting in Brooklyn. A second contract for 1,260 megawatts was awarded in January.
 

Capt Richie

Well-Known Angler
Feb 16, 2019
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Gas up eight cents a gallon overnight ..GOP plans to TAX elect. cars & trucks..

No matter what way they go ..Were going to pay !
 

Roccus7

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Dec 22, 2018
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Well this isn't good, NJ decides to ram things down folks' throats!!!

New Jersey bill would remove local control of wind power lines​

pressherald.com/2021/06/24/new-jersey-bill-would-remove-local-control-of-wind-power-lines/

By WAYNE PARRY June 24, 2021
Wind turbines at the Atlantic County Utilities Authority plant in Atlantic City, N.J., shown in 2020.


ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. — Local communities would be stripped of most control over where and how power lines from offshore wind energy projects come ashore under a bill expected to receive final approval Thursday in the state Legislature.

The bill would give wind energy projects approved by the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities authority to locate, build, use and maintain wires and associated land-based infrastructure as long as they run underground on public property including streets. The BPU could determine that some aboveground wires are necessary.

It appears to be an effort to head off any local objections to at least one wind power project envisioned to come ashore at two former power plants, and run cables under two of the state’s most popular beaches.

After officials in some shore towns objected to the bill last week during a hearing in the state Assembly, a provision was added that would require a public hearing on a proposed project.

“There’s going to be a high level of seriousness given to local concerns,” said Assemblyman John Burzichelli, a southern New Jersey Democrat and sponsor of the bill.

But he said the goal of the bill is to give power lines from offshore wind projects the same level of presumptive approval as those from other energy sources.

“There is some misunderstanding with a small group trying to make sure offshore wind won’t happen at all,” Burzichelli said. “We’re way past that now.”

A project planned by Orsted and Public Service Enterprise Group, a New Jersey utility company, would connect to the electric grid at decommissioned power plants in Ocean and Cape May Counties.

Cables running from the wind farm, to be located between 15 and 27 miles off the coast of Atlantic City, would come ashore at one of three potential locations in Ocean City, and would run under a roadway to a former power plant in Upper Township.

Cables also would need to cross Island Beach State Park in Ocean County, running under the dunes and beach – and possibly existing parking lots – out into Barnegat Bay. They would come ashore either at the former Oyster Creek nuclear power plant in the Forked River section of Lacey, or in Waretown, also known as Ocean Township in Ocean County.

Orsted also proposes a second project off New Jersey, and Atlantic Shores Offshore Wind, a joint venture between EDF Renewables North America and Shell New Energies US LLC, also proposes an offshore wind farm off the state’s coast.

In addition, a Massachusetts company plans to build a high-voltage line to bring electricity from a future New Jersey offshore wind farm onto land, and connect it to the power grid. Anbaric, of Wakefield, Massachusetts, has already obtained several permits from New Jersey environmental regulators for what it calls its Boardwalk Power Link project.

The bill entitles a qualified wind energy project to obtain easements, rights-of-way or other property rights from any level of government that are necessary to build the project. The BPU would make a final decision if such approvals are withheld by governments.

No state, county or local government would be able to prohibit or charge a fee for the use of a street or other public property other than a road opening permit. If these governments refuse the permit for any other reason than legitimate public safety concerns, the state utilities board would be required to issue an order granting the necessary approval.

If a company’s project impacts land that had previously been preserved as open space, the company would have to provide money to acquire three times the amount of affected land as a replacement.
 

george

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The further I dig the more I find. There are many highly influential environmentalists that are opposed to these wind farms.

JUNE 28, 2021, Ocean City, NJ. – “You've heard propaganda about wind farms from Orsted & Governor Murphy for years - Now hear the real story. I am proud to announce today that best-selling author Michael Shellenberger is our VIP coming to Ocean City on Thursday, July 15th, 7PM to present his respected views of so-called "green energy" to help educate the Citizens of Ocean City and New Jersey about the risky, unreliable and ill-advised proposal to build industrial wind farms off the New Jersey Coast,” said Trica Conte, Founder of the Facebook Group Save our Shoreline - Stop the Wind Farms Off the Coast of NJ!

"On behalf of the 4,200+ followers of Save our Shoreline NJ Facebook page, and the 10,500+ signers of our Change.org Petition I am pleased to organize this Special Event and look forward to a crowd at the Ocean City Music Pier on Thursday, July 15th, 2021 at 7PM," said Conte.

Shellenberger is author of the best-selling new book, Apocalypse Never (Harper Collins June 30, 2020), which has received strong praise from scientists and scholars including Harvard’s Steven Pinker, MIT climate scientist Kerry Emanuel, and the former CEO and Chief Scientist of The Nature Conservancy. “This may be the most important book on the environment ever written,” writes leading climate scientist Tom Wigley. Shellenberger advises policymakers around the world including in the U.S., Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, Australia, United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Belgium. In January 2020, Shellenberger testified before the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology of the U.S. House of Representatives. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change invited Michael in 2019 to serve as an independent Expert Reviewer of its next Assessment Report.
"The underlying problem with solar and wind is that they are too unreliable and energy-dilute. " "The reason renewables can’t power modern civilization is because they were never meant to. One interesting question is why anybody ever thought they could." -- Michael Shellenberger

Conte continued, "As you know, for more than two years the Danish company Orsted has invaded New Jersey spending millions of dollars pushing corporate propaganda for their unprecedented, ill-advised industrial wind farm, while simultaneously unleashing their foreign agents to lobby and mislead elected and appointed officials in Ocean City and across New Jersey. Orsted has also forced their corporate propaganda into our public schools, which is unacceptable. It is in the best interest of all Citizens of Ocean City and New Jersey to have a full, open and honest debate, encouraging alternative views and a range of information, to help Citizens determine whether to support or oppose President Biden's and Governor Murphy's radical and unprecedented proposal to irrevocably and negatively alter the environment, the economy and the future of the Jersey Shore and the Atlantic Coast.

"Our proposal to invite journalist and author Michael Shellenberger - “North America’s leading public intellectual on clean energy,” - to come to Ocean City is made in the spirit and with the intent of adding important and relevant information and opinions to the public debate. IF industrial wind farms were so great and were going to SAVE you money, Governor Murphy, Senate President Sweeney and Assembly Speaker Coughlin, and ORSTED would NOT have to USE BLUNT FORCE to implement or hide the real costs of their Energy Master Plan (EMP)!", stated Conte.
 

Pangaroo

Angler
Jan 15, 2021
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I'm for all forms of energy and it'll drive down the price of gas if the Green energy powers a lot of cars. I think Solar is the best option . What happens if the wind doesn't blow for a week during the summer when everybody has their AC on ? You'll still need regular power plants and maintaining regular power plants and Wind mills together will be very expensive.
 
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