OK You NY Worm Trollers Now's Your Chance to let DEC your Concerns

[MakoMike]

Good luck! The ASMFC is committed to this circle hook requirement, they have already turned down several requests for exemptions from MA.

 

[pequa1]

Getting to the point where I am glad I stopped fishing for them with bait ! Just saw that a 9/0 Owner Circle at Walmart is selling for five bucks !

 

[Roccus7]

Forgot to share this post I made on Maine fishing website. In regards to Pork Rind & Gulp Baits, Maine is quite adamant that these are NOT natural baits and therefore not subject to the circle hook requirement. Hopefully you can convince DEC the same.

We do have a bit of a leg up on NY here. ME Inland Fisheries considers pork rind a natural bait, but they don't rule salt water regs, the Division of Marine Resources does, they do NOT consider pork rind a natural marine bait, and they are fiercely independent of the Inland folks...

Some good news on this front. Some of you have been concerned that Gulp baits might be considered "natural baits" I've been in contact with Maine members of the ASMFC and was assured that Gulp is NOT a "natural bait". This same member said they are considering another go around with Tube-n-Worms so don't go changing over to circle hooks just quite yet.

Additionally, I brought up the topic of pork rinds. This ASMFC member assured me that pork rind is NOT a "natural, marine bait" and Maine DMR would not ding folks for using them on any J-hooks. The member mentioned this is a state by state decision. Time to start lobbying your state's Marine conservation groups to allow pork rind!! What's a bucktail or a Tony Aceta Pet Spoon without pork rind?

 

[wader]

I've worm trolled the Nissequogue River numerous times in a canoe using circle hooks with great success. No tube. Just the hook (occasionally with a spinner blade on it to attract some attention) on a leader (4.0) using a light weight drail to keep it under the surface.

 

[george]

Good luck! The ASMFC is committed to this circle hook requirement, they have already turned down several requests for exemptions from MA.

I agree but it's always good to let them know how you feel. I actually thought this was a done deal already. But I do think NYSDEC will consider out comments.

 

[Jack_Daniels]

Good luck! The ASMFC is committed to this circle hook requirement, they have already turned down several requests for exemptions from MA.

If they are so committed to it, then they should recognize some reduction in mortality from it. However, they don't.

I just sent my comments off to the DEC:


I am writing to you as a NYS recreational angler who targets striped bass in the marine waters with live and dead baits. I have read the proposed circle hook regulation and observed the discussions from last year for the ASMFC required reduction in mortality for striped bass which lead to our current slot limit for striped bass.

For the record, I am not in favor of the proposed circle hook regulation.

The DEC announcement states:

“This proposed regulation would reduce mortality in recreational striped bass fisheries as required by the ASMFC.”

The Dept has not demonstrated that to be true. In fact, the ASMFC has refused to grant NYS anglers any “credit” toward a reduction in release mortality of striped bass because they state there haven’t been any, or not enough, studies done on the efficacy of using circle hooks to reduce release mortality in striped bass. Therefore, this is not being done to “reduce mortality as required by the ASMFC.” Instead, it’s being proposed as “feel good” measure by the Dept.

The DEC has already met the required reduction in mortality of striped bass by imposing a slot limit. The circle hook regulation is just an additional, unnecessary, burdensome regulation the DEC is proposing to impose on it’s regulated community for absolutely NO recognized benefit.

NYS Recreational Marine Anglers are already abused enough with arduous and overbearing regulations. Striped bass have been reduced to a slot limit to achieve the required reduction for one. Not being allowed to fish for and target seabass when they are inhabiting our waters, and then, having a ridiculous small bag limit when we can fish for them, while imposing a large size limit is another example. Those examples are required by the ASMFC and MAFMC who the DEC must answer to. This proposed regulation however is not. The DEC should stop looking to unnecessarily hinder, burden and hurt it’s regulated recreational marine angler community and instead look to help and promote it. Dropping this proposed circle hook regulation would be one step toward that end.

 

[Roccus7]

You folks NEED to get on the stick and RESPOND!!! Looks like NY is using the freshwater definition of natural baits!! Last time I looked, using salamanders wasn't on the list of the top 5000 striped bass baits. The "Putty" comment is also troublesome, that might mean no GULP products!!!

Clearly demonstrates that DEC doesn't give a crap, nor thinks things through!!

Here's the proposed new circle hook regs!!!

Part 10, Part 19 & Part 40 - Striped Bass Circle Hooks - Express Terms​

Part 10 of 6NYCRR is amended to read as follows:​

A new paragraph 10.1(c)(9) is added to read as follows:

(9) A non-offset circle hook, as defined in 19.1(a)(4) of this Title, is required when fishing for striped bass when using any natural bait, as defined in paragraph 19.1(a)(2) of this Title. Striped bass caught on any other type of hook baited with natural bait must be returned to the water immediately without unnecessary injury.

Part 19 of 6NYCRR is amended to read as follows:​

A new paragraph 19.1(a)(4) is added to read as follows:

(4) 'Non-offset circle hook' means a fishing hook designed and manufactured so that the point and barb of the hook are not offset from the plane of the shank and bend, and the point is turned perpendicularly back towards the shank to form a circular or oval shape.

Part 40 of 6NYCRR is amended to read as follows:​

New paragraphs 40.1(a)(11) and (12) are added to read as follows:

(11) 'Natural bait ' means all baits which entice or might be ingested or swallowed by fish including, but not limited to, fish (dead or alive), fish eggs, worms, shellfish, crustacea, amphibians (salamanders, frogs and toads), insects (including all stages of development as larvae, pupae, etc.), pork rinds, liver, meat, corn or other vegetable matter, tapioca, candy, cheese, bread and putty or dough-like scented baits.

(12) 'Non-offset circle hook' means a fishing hook designed and manufactured so that the point and barb of the hook are not offset from the plane of the shank and bend, and the point is turned perpendicularly back towards the shank to form a circular or oval shape.

A new subparagraph 40.1(g)(2)(i) is added to read as follows:

(i) Recreational anglers are required to use a non-offset circle hook when fishing for striped bass with any natural bait. Striped bass caught on any other type of hook baited with natural bait must be returned to the water immediately without unnecessary injury.

 

[MakoMike]

If they are so committed to it, then they should recognize some reduction in mortality from it. However, they don't.

I just sent my comments off to the DEC:


I am writing to you as a NYS recreational angler who targets striped bass in the marine waters with live and dead baits. I have read the proposed circle hook regulation and observed the discussions from last year for the ASMFC required reduction in mortality for striped bass which lead to our current slot limit for striped bass.

For the record, I am not in favor of the proposed circle hook regulation.

The DEC announcement states:

“This proposed regulation would reduce mortality in recreational striped bass fisheries as required by the ASMFC.”

The Dept has not demonstrated that to be true. In fact, the ASMFC has refused to grant NYS anglers any “credit” toward a reduction in release mortality of striped bass because they state there haven’t been any, or not enough, studies done on the efficacy of using circle hooks to reduce release mortality in striped bass. Therefore, this is not being done to “reduce mortality as required by the ASMFC.” Instead, it’s being proposed as “feel good” measure by the Dept.

The DEC has already met the required reduction in mortality of striped bass by imposing a slot limit. The circle hook regulation is just an additional, unnecessary, burdensome regulation the DEC is proposing to impose on it’s regulated community for absolutely NO recognized benefit.

NYS Recreational Marine Anglers are already abused enough with arduous and overbearing regulations. Striped bass have been reduced to a slot limit to achieve the required reduction for one. Not being allowed to fish for and target seabass when they are inhabiting our waters, and then, having a ridiculous small bag limit when we can fish for them, while imposing a large size limit is another example. Those examples are required by the ASMFC and MAFMC who the DEC must answer to. This proposed regulation however is not. The DEC should stop looking to unnecessarily hinder, burden and hurt it’s regulated recreational marine angler community and instead look to help and promote it. Dropping this proposed circle hook regulation would be one step toward that end.

FYI there are numerous scientific studies showing that the use of circle hooks reduces discard mortality, and roughly 70% of all striped bass mortality is from released fish.

 

[george]

FYI there are numerous scientific studies showing that the use of circle hooks reduces discard mortality, and roughly 70% of all striped bass mortality is from released fish.

Hey Mike, it seems like common sense that they will help but I'm still looking for one of these studies. And as JD pointed out shouldn't regulators add that to the equation?

 

[george]

". Striped bass caught on any other type of hook baited with natural bait must be returned to the water immediately without unnecessary injury."
Am I missing something here or is this suggesting that if you bait a bass without a circle hook it must be released? So technically we can catch and release stripped bass on bait, as long as we're not using circle hooks?

 

[Rick67]

". Striped bass caught on any other type of hook baited with natural bait must be returned to the water immediately without unnecessary injury."
Am I missing something here or is this suggesting that if you bait a bass without a circle hook it must be released? So technically we can catch and release stripped bass on bait, as long as we're not using circle hooks?

I’m liking that better then my Fishing For Bluefish Only response.

 

[Jack_Daniels]

FYI there are numerous scientific studies showing that the use of circle hooks reduces discard mortality, and roughly 70% of all striped bass mortality is from released fish.

That may be. However there aren't many, if any, on their efficacy in reducing mortality for striped bass. So the ASMFC won't recognize any reduction in mortality for their use.

That makes this proposal an unreasonable, unnecessary, and burdensome regulation IMO.

 

[Jack_Daniels]

". Striped bass caught on any other type of hook baited with natural bait must be returned to the water immediately without unnecessary injury."
Am I missing something here or is this suggesting that if you bait a bass without a circle hook it must be released? So technically we can catch and release stripped bass on bait, as long as we're not using circle hooks?

You're intentionally leaving out the first sentence which states:

Recreational anglers are required to use a non-offset circle hook when fishing for striped bass with any natural bait.

It doesn't specify only fishing to keep and kill a striped bass. Targeted C&R is included in "fishing." Unfortunately.

 

[Roccus7]

For the record, I'm deeply disturbed that none of you had the common decency to tell me that Tapioca was a valued striped bass bait!! How did you ever get those tiny beads on a hook? I image that Kraft Foods is quite upset with this ruling!!!

HTF could anyone in NY DEC write that ruling without some sort of propriety??? As written, this reg speaks volumes for the lack of reality in my old home state. Glad it was not even on the short list of where to retire. I weep for you all!!

 

[george]

You're intentionally leaving out the first sentence which states:

Recreational anglers are required to use a non-offset circle hook when fishing for striped bass with any natural bait.

It doesn't specify only fishing to keep and kill a striped bass. Targeted C&R is included in "fishing."

Honestly it wasn't intentional. So is that suggesting, for example, I'm fluking with a bucktail and squid, and I catch a slot sized bass, which has happened a number of times, I have to return it?

I agree with @Roccus7 this is a poorly written. And did they really want tapioca in there?

 

[MakoMike]

Hey Mike, it seems like common sense that they will help but I'm still looking for one of these studies. And as JD pointed out shouldn't regulators add that to the equation?

Not sure what you mean George, the ASMFC is trying to reduce release mortality, which constitutes about 70% of the total mortality on striped bass. If you're going to kill the fish it really doesn't matter what kind of hook you use. But most of the mortality in the past is from released fish, so I don't understand what "equation" you're talking about.

A quick google of "circle hook mortality study" turns up 3 or 4 of them.

 

[MakoMike]

That may be. However there aren't many, if any, on their efficacy in reducing mortality for striped bass. So the ASMFC won't recognize any reduction in mortality for their use.

That makes this proposal an unreasonable, unnecessary, and burdensome regulation IMO.

The ASMFC is trying to reduce the mortality of released fish, which is about 50% of the total mortality on striped bass, so any reduction in mortality won't affect the size and bag limits for fish you can keep.

 

[MakoMike]

You're intentionally leaving out the first sentence which states:

Recreational anglers are required to use a non-offset circle hook when fishing for striped bass with any natural bait.

It doesn't specify only fishing to keep and kill a striped bass. Targeted C&R is included in "fishing." Unfortunately.

That was the intent. C&R is responsible for more striped bass mortality than any other fishery, including commercial fishing.

 

[MakoMike]

This is the chart the ASMFC was using when they voted to adopt the circle hook requirement.

 

[Jack_Daniels]

This is the chart the ASMFC was using when they voted to adopt the circle hook requirement.

You seem to be missing the point.

We all understand that ASMFC wants to reduce mortality on striped bass.

Let me approach this from another angle...

What % reduction in striped bass mortality does the ASMFC indicate will be realized with a mandatory circle hook regulation?