Orient point please help!!!

Not to hijack, but personally I'm very disappointed that the new owners of duryea's took the place over and turned it into what appears to be a hamptons/south fork mucky muck more upscale kind of joint...

When visiting a friend in Jamesport 3 years ago after not seeing the North Fork in probably 25 years, I was HORRIFIED at everything, thought I was on the wrong fork of LI. Traffic, trendy little bistros, etc. And the helicopter traffic heading to the Hamptons, which got routed out over the Sound and then south over the Jamesport area!!! I thought I was on the set of Apocalypse Now!!!

Truly a sad shadow of its former self.
 
Not to hijack, but personally I'm very disappointed that the new owners of duryea's took the place over and turned it into what appears to be a hamptons/south fork mucky muck more upscale kind of joint...

They did it in Montauk. but Montauk is a destination town, I don't know if they are going to get traffic in Orient except a bunch if drunks getting off the boats, but I have to guess they are smarter folks than I. Time will tell.
John
 
From two Northfork brothers, Southold has really ratcheted things down even further thanks to COVID. Even if you park in a legal spot, e.g. friend's driveway, if they see you on a Southold town beach and you cannot prove you're a Southold resident, they can ticket you. And catch this, the town constables are required to make 3 sweeps per shift of the parking areas and beaches!!!

It's all a matter of cash flow. No non-resident permits sold this year, so let's get those funds flowing from the non-residents anyway!
Don’t usually comment but this time I will. You’re 100% wrong about your “cash flow” theory. These increased patrols were necessitated because of a large number of out of town residents who were using our beaches and leaving garbage everywhere and relieving themselves wherever they found fit all hours of the day and night. They also found it their personal mission to eradicate our waters of the sea robins by just leaving them on the beach to rot. The waters that surround our Island are everyones to enjoy but just like when I head up west, you need parking permits or have to pay the non resident fee to enter.
 
They did it in Montauk. but Montauk is a destination town, I don't know if they are going to get traffic in Orient except a bunch if drunks getting off the boats, but I have to guess they are smarter folks than I. Time will tell.
John
Hey John hope all is well. Having lived out here 20 years full time now I can tell you that in the last 5 years or so the North Fork has become the “North annex of the South Fork”. With it has come increased car and boat traffic, bourgie restaurants, increased prices for services, and “enlightened“ folks trying to change the political landscape. Their policies have worked out great in the city from which they flee, right? Anyhow, still boatless (not paying “pandemic prices”) but hope to see you out there soon.
 
Don’t usually comment but this time I will. You’re 100% wrong about your “cash flow” theory. These increased patrols were necessitated because of a large number of out of town residents who were using our beaches and leaving garbage everywhere and relieving themselves wherever they found fit all hours of the day and night. They also found it their personal mission to eradicate our waters of the sea robins by just leaving them on the beach to rot. The waters that surround our Island are everyones to enjoy but just like when I head up west, you need parking permits or have to pay the non resident fee to enter.

You're correct, my "Brotherhood" information did include the above data as the initial impetus for the crackdown, but the officer who explained the crackdown did comment that no one at Town Hall was complaining about the increase in cash flow either...

And keep in mind that some above have commented, Southold has withheld selling non-resident permits this year because of COVID.
 
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Not to hijack, but personally I'm very disappointed that the new owners of duryea's took the place over and turned it into what appears to be a hamptons/south fork mucky muck more upscale kind of joint...

Sadly, Chinacat's comments are correct. I know a great deal about the history of the North Fork and Orient by the Sea from over 50 years personal experience fishing this area. I docked 2 of my boats at OBS for almost 20 years starting in the early 80's. I have also operated my own charter business on the North Fork since 1990. For the last 3 years I have also been running the Orient Star on a P/T basis for Capt. Dan Buckley.

The new owner of OBS is a billionaire Hedge Fund guy named Marc Rowan. He is the same guy who bought Duryea's Lobster Dock, a few motels, and a couple of other high end restaurants in the Montauk/Southampton area. Essentially he wants to turn most of the properties he owns into his own vision of a playground for the rich and famous. He has been involved many legal zoning battles with the Town of East Hampton for some time now. It may take some time but he apparently has enough money to sustain the legal fees necessary to win these fights.

It seems painfully obvious he is doing the same exact thing at Orient. His first focus was to completely rip out all of the slips in the outer basin where many of the smaller commercial operators and a few private boats were tied up, including myself in years gone by. He increased the width of the entrance by 12' (a good thing) but turned the entire outer basin into transient space for the wealthy set to come dine in the newly renovated restaurant. He did only some minor repairs to the inner basin where the charter fleet is tied up and somehow muscled out a few of the older small commercials. From what I hear they will not be allowing any more commercial or charter boats to occupy space not already spoken for. As you might imagine, the remaining boats in the inner basin are pretty concerned about their future at OBS.

This whole background story, plus one more point, supports my belief that you will never see the OBS launch ramp reopen. As part of the gentrification process, the south end of the property which faces Gardiners Bay was completely cleaned up. It used to be essentially a trash heap with rusted girders and dumpsters covering this area. There was also some space there where cars with trailers would park after launching their boats. Now the entire area has been cleaned up and I don't know many truckloads of pure white sand brought in. They have planted beach grasses and added comfortable lounge chairs. It literally looks like a scene from a resort in the Bahamas. So, with that type of backdrop and all the parking area now gone does anyone think they will restore the launch ramp for fisherman?

As has been previously noted unless you are a town resident the only launch options currently left are the ramps at Port of Egypt and Brick Cove marinas. Aside from that, your only other choices are the several fine charter boats that are still working in this beautiful part of Long Island.
Capt. Mike Bady
 
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This is the area where the trailer fisherman used to park their vehicles and trailers after using the launch ramp. Do you think Mr. Rowan wants his high end diners to be looking at them while dropping a small fortune on food at his new restaurant?
Unfortunately, I thing the days of a launch ramp at OBS are just a fond memory.

I sure hope he does not decide to take out the Charter fleet. There are a lot of hard working, full time , lifelong fisherman whose employment depends on this port.
obsbeach.webp
 
Sadly, Chinacat's comments are correct. I know a great deal about the history of the North Fork and Orient by the Sea from over 50 years personal experience fishing this area. I docked 2 of my boats at OBS for almost 20 years starting in the early 80's. I have also operated my own charter business on the North Fork since 1990. For the last 3 years I have also been running the Orient Star on a P/T basis for Capt. Dan Buckley.

The new owner of OBS is a billionaire Hedge Fund guy named Marc Rowan. He is the same guy who bought Duryea's Lobster Dock, a few motels, and a couple of other high end restaurants in the Montauk/Southampton area. Essentially he wants to turn most of the properties he owns into his own vision of a playground for the rich and famous. He has been involved many legal zoning battles with the Town of East Hampton for some time now. It may take some time but he apparently has enough money to sustain the legal fees necessary to win these fights.

It seems painfully obvious he is doing the same exact thing at Orient. His first focus was to completely rip out all of the slips in the outer basin where many of the smaller commercial operators and a few private boats were tied up, including myself in years gone by. He increased the width of the entrance by 12" (a good thing) but turned the entire outer basin into transient space for the wealthy set to come dine in the newly renovated restaurant. He did only some minor repairs to the inner basin where the charter fleet is tied up and somehow muscled out a few of the older small commercials. From what I hear they will not be allowing any more commercial or charter boats to occupy space not already spoken for. As you might imagine, the remaining boats in the inner basin are pretty concerned about their future at OBS.

This whole background story, plus one more point, supports my belief that you will never see the OBS launch ramp reopen. As part of the gentrification process, the south end of the property which faces Gardiners Bay was completely cleaned up. It used to be essentially a trash heap with rusted girders and dumpsters covering this area. There was also some space there where cars with trailers would park after launching their boats. Now the entire area has been cleaned up and I don't know many truckloads of pure white sand brought in. They have planted beach grasses and added comfortable lounge chairs. It literally looks like a scene from a resort in the Bahamas. So, with that type of backdrop and all the parking area now gone does anyone think they will restore the launch ramp for fisherman?

As has been previously noted unless you are a town resident the only launch options currently left are the ramps at Port of Egypt and Brick Cove marinas. Aside from that, your only other choices are the several fine charter boats that are still working in this beautiful part of Long Island.
Capt. Mike Bady

Some of my most treasured fishing memories of the North Fork originated at Orient By The Sea. This is truly a tragic, but certainly not unexpected consequence of the gentrification of the East End from a working waterfront and agricultural center to a "quaint" playground for well-heeled city dwellers who can't imagine life without a fine Chardonnay at hand. Tragedies like this immediately pop into my mind when I question why we didn't retire on LI, and reinforce the wisdom of our ended up in Maine, where working waterfronts still exist.

Sadly, the lure of relatively inexpensive waterfront land here and anywhere along the coast, coupled with the exodus of city folks escaping the pandemic, is a serious threat to working waterfronts coast-wide. People have no shame, buying up land close to commercial fishing dock operations and then having the chutzpah to band together to complain about the noise at 04:00 and the horrible smells from the operations.

As more folks "From Away" move into small coastal Maine towns and get on the town councils, suddenly there are successful initiatives to close down the commercial fishing ops or severely hamstring them. No wonder Maineahs hold most PFAs in such high contempt.
 
One of many reasons why my boat is on the North Fork is because for many years the town boards resisted the wholesale negative "upscaling" that took place in the Hamptons and Montauk. As Roccus mentions the fishing and the beautiful scenery here is still the finest on Long Island but the changes are becoming more apparent every year.

The real irony will come when the idiots with their $100 bottles of wine start complaining that the fish just doesn't taste as good as it used to while they dine on some frozen Talapia or other imported garbage! Worst of all they will never realize they created the problem!
 
The access war in Portland, from today's Portland Portland Press Herald...

Lawsuit challenges access to prized piece of Portland’s working waterfront
pressherald.com/2020/08/28/lawsuit-challenges-access-to-prized-piece-of-portlands-working-waterfront/

By Randy Billings Staff Writer August 28, 2020

Lobsterman Richard Holt, left, and boat repairman Chip Flanagan await low tide to do hull repairs on the lobster boat Hilma Frances, which is tied to pilings along an alleyway between Custom House Wharf and Portland Pier. Ben McCanna/Staff Photographer

A lawsuit filed in Cumberland County Superior Court could limit historical access to the working waterfront by commercial fishermen in Portland.

The suit, filed in April by Soley Wharf LLC, seeks to clarify ownership of a waterfront alleyway behind 100 Commercial St. that connects Custom House Wharf to Portland Pier. That alleyway behind Thomas Block has been used for decades by commercial fisherman to service their gear and boats and is also a popular place for tourists to take pictures of the city’s working waterfront.

Attorney Glenn Israel, who represents Soley Wharf, said the suit does not aim to eliminate public access or prevent commercial fishermen from loading and offloading gear or accessing their boats. But it would allow the owners to enforce rules against fishermen parking their vehicles or storing their traps in the alley for long periods of time – a long-standing problem that, Israel said, has been the subject of negotiations.
“We weren’t making progress trying to negotiate a resolution, because the fishermen kept raising the issue of ownership and saying because there was no ownership we didn’t have standing to police what was going on back there,” Israel said. “So we decided we needed to establish ownership in order to have footing from which to negotiate.”

But fishermen and the city councilor who represents the waterfront area fear the lawsuit will ultimately lead to loss of waterfront access.

City Councilor Belinda Ray, who represents the district, said she hopes the city will be “fully participating” in the fight to preserve public access, especially for commercial fishermen.

“The working waterfront and access to the waterfront for the public are of incredibly high value to this council,” Ray said. She noted that the city adjusted the zoning last year to prohibit new hotels and restaurants along the waterfront and piers. “(The waterfront) is a precious commodity and access needs to be protected.”

Visitors enjoy the scene Wednesday from the alleyway behind 100 Commercial St. in Portland. A lawsuit concerning the alley’s ownership could lead to limits on its use by fishermen. Gregory Rec/Staff Photographer

The lawsuit the alley has triggered is the latest in a long history of legal clashes over recreational and commercial access to Maine’s coast.

Such battles often involve centuries-old deeds and court rulings, and typically pit the rights of neighboring property owners against the rights of the public or commercial fishing communities. Recent disputes over beach access in Kennebunkport and a shorefront path in Cape Elizabeth have gone to the Maine Supreme Judicial Court.

Soley Wharf LLC, which is affiliated with East Brown Cow Management, filed suit in April against Proprietors of Portland Pier, the Corporation of the Proprietors of Portland Pier and Portland resident Mary Green Barthelman.

The suit alleges that Barthelman wrongfully asserted ownership over the western portion of the alley and granted “certain easement rights” to the city in 1985. Israel said Soley Wharf acquired the property in 1998, but the western portion of the alley was not clearly conveyed through a complex series of land sales dating back to 1857.

In a response to the suit, Barthelman’s attorney, Joseph Talbot, denies that his client wrongfully asserted her ownership, while acknowledging that she was acting as a sole proprietor of the Proprietors of Portland Pier. They’re asking that the suit be dismissed.

Talbot did not respond to email or a voicemail requests for an interview.

Israel said in an interview that the lawsuit stems from a longstanding dispute between Soley Wharf and commercial fishermen who rely on the alley. The two sides have been trying to negotiate an agreement that would continue access for fisherman, he said, while also prohibiting them from parking their trucks or stacking their traps in the alleyway, but the fisherman claim Soley Wharf has no standing.

“The position of my client has been the fishermen don’t have a right to park a truck there and leave it all day, or to pile their lobster traps in the pedestrian easement and leave those there for long periods of time,” Israel said. “And that, too, is not going to change. What they’re hoping is that by establishing title to that property they’ll have better standing to enforce those restrictions.”

Meanwhile, supporters of the working waterfront sent the Press Herald photos of vehicles that do not appear to belong to fishermen blocking access to the pier, as well.

The Portland City Council held an executive session Monday to discuss the lawsuit but no public action was taken. Mayor Kate Snyder declined an interview request and referred questions to Danielle West-Chuhta, the city’s top attorney. West-Chuhta said the suit was being brought to the council because the city has an easement “in/on/over the area in question.” She did not respond to a question about whether the city would formally join the lawsuit.

Ray said the council may not need to take any formal action, but she declined to say what guidance the council gave West-Chuhta.

On Wednesday afternoon, lobster boats were tied up along Custom House Wharf and Portland Pier and lobster traps were piled up on the docks. One vessel, the Alice O, of Cape Elizabeth, was dry-docked along the alleyway for repairs. Several mask-wearing tourists were photographing what is one of the most iconic scenes of Portland’s working waterfront, or were simply taking in the view while seated on a series of flat granite blocks.

Lobsterman Bill Coppersmith said that roughly 100 commercial fishermen a year use the alley to load and offload traps and other gear, and use the shallow area as an inexpensive way to dry dock and service their boats, whether it’s removing rope from their propeller wheel or scraping barnacles off the hull. Boats are brought alongside the alley at high tide and rest on the gravel at low tide. He said that access is “very important” to fishermen.

“You can’t always afford to pay thousands of dollars to get your boat hauled out of the water,” Coppersmith said.

Soley Wharf has installed an electric vehicle charging station along the alleyway. And Coppersmith said the owners “have been pushing it” for a while to see whether they could get away with blocking access and parking vehicles there. At times, fishermen have not been able to access the waterfront there and it’s even been difficult for pedestrians to walk through because of the vehicles, he said.

Coppersmith said fishermen have had access to that area for over 40 years and that state and local officials should do everything they can to preserve access to the working waterfront, which is disappearing amid coastal development.

“We can’t afford to lose another inch of commercial waterfront property,” he said.
 
I had no idea the issues at OBS were beyond the restaurant itself. The points brought up by Capt Mike are just gut wrenching. The fact that the local commercial and charter fleets are being displaced from their home and livelihoods is just wrong!

Given local demand for waterfront access I’m thinking there aren’t many options for relocation
 
Whether it be Orient Point of Portland, ME it is really sad to see generations of hard working Americans being displaced by those with tons of money who claim to be compassionate for the "middle class". What BS.

As I said before, when it comes to those who supply us with the fresh seafood we love and need to survive, these idiots are cutting their own throats along with ours. Disgraceful!!
 
According to their website its not named Orient By The Sea it's now called Duryeas Orient Point. I have to try and get this guy on a podcast and find out what their plans are for the fleet.
Why not get that person for a dunk tank, $20 for 3 throws with proceeds to charity?? I'd even schlep down for that!!!
 
George,
Just to be clear, I have no documented "inside knowledge" that Marc Rowan actually plans to take out the Orient Charter Fleet. However, just watching what is going on there and on the properties he now owns in the Montauk area is a cause for concern. All I can say for certain is the Orient Captains I know are all pretty nervous.

Even if he agrees to join you on a podcast can we really trust him to be totally honest about his future plans for the site? As a related example, the marina where I am currently docked has been up for sale for at least the past 3 years. I just found out it was actually sold earlier this year. No one among the former owners who are still working on the property has said a single word to any of the boat owners. Sadly, the folks who have the wealth to actually buy these jewels by the sea are rarely up front about their real long term intentions.

BTW, you are right about the name change to Duryea's. Does that give you any more clues?

Also. I would be first in line behind Roccus for a few shots at that "dunk tank"!!!
 
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