Proof The System Is Broken - We killed 3x the fluke we took home

george

george

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🎣 Fluke Catch & Release Reality Check: By the Numbers 🎣

Here’s what a typical summer weekend looked like for just one popular fluke spot south of Jones Inlet.

Our Boat (3 anglers)​

  • Total Released: 100
  • Kept (legal limit): 4
  • Died from Release Mortality: 11

All Party Boats in Area (290 anglers, 5 trips)​

  • Total Released: 7,250
  • Kept (legal limit): 290
  • Died from Release Mortality: 797

Private Boats (200 additional anglers)​

  • Total Released: 7,000
  • Kept (legal limit): 280
  • Died from Release Mortality: 770

Grand Total: One Day, One Area​

  • Total Fluke Released: 14,350
  • Total Fluke Kept: 574
  • Fluke That Died from Release Mortality: 1,579 (Nearly 3x as many as were legally kept!)
🚨 Key Takeaway: For every fluke you put in your cooler, almost three more die after release—even with careful handling and good intentions.

Share this if you care about the future of our fishery.
Let’s start the conversation: How can we all do better for the fish—and each other?
 
Last edited:
Allow us to take the first 3 or 4 fish you catch of your mchoice and want to keep so you have the chance for a trophy if you want or switch over to target another species and stop catching and releasing fish that may die 👍
 
Chinacat said:
Allow us to take the first 3 or 4 fish you catch of your mchoice and want to keep so you have the chance for a trophy if you want or switch over to target another species and stop catching and releasing fish that may die 👍
Click to expand...
Then I'll never leave the bay! Keep my first 3 14" fish and go home! Love it!

Will that apply to shore based anglers as well? I see buckets full of 10" scup!!

Lol
 
My suggestion which would be impossible to enforce would be to give each rec entry into the quota. They would need to report their catch at the end of the trip similar to bluefin tuna.

16"minimum size. 5fish per person. Once the fluke quota is reached, it get shut down whether its july or September.
 
Here's a question for you guys . . . Why are we targeting the older fish when a female over 25 inches produces 4-million eggs while smaller fish produce between 250-500k? Don't we save the larger striped bass because of their reproductive abundance at older ages?

Yet commercially they're taken at 14-inches! And somehow we look at this and say "maybe we can save the fishery by regulating the recs"

It's Nauseating.
 
george said:
Here's a question for you guys . . . Why are we targeting the older fish when a female over 25 inches produces 4-million eggs while smaller fish produce between 250-500k? Don't we save the larger striped bass because of their reproductive abundance at older ages?

Yet commercially they're taken at 14-inches! And somehow we look at this and say "maybe we can save the fishery by regulating the recs"

It's Nauseating.
Click to expand...
If actual science ruled the regulations, then, IMHO, we should have a slot limit for Fluke as well to protect the larger and most successful spawning fish.

However, the slot would have to allow us to take 18" fish so we could sat least be reasonably assured of going home with something to eat after all the time, effort and money invested. Four fish at 18-23" sounds good to me.
 
george said:
View attachment 104539

🎣 Fluke Catch & Release Reality Check: By the Numbers 🎣

Here’s what a typical summer weekend looked like for just one popular fluke spot south of Jones Inlet.

Our Boat (3 anglers)​

  • Total Released: 100
  • Kept (legal limit): 4
  • Died from Release Mortality: 11

All Party Boats in Area (290 anglers, 5 trips)​

  • Total Released: 7,250
  • Kept (legal limit): 290
  • Died from Release Mortality: 797

Private Boats (200 additional anglers)​

  • Total Released: 7,000
  • Kept (legal limit): 280
  • Died from Release Mortality: 770

Grand Total: One Day, One Area​

  • Total Fluke Released: 14,350
  • Total Fluke Kept: 574
  • Fluke That Died from Release Mortality: 1,579 (Nearly 3x as many as were legally kept!)
🚨 Key Takeaway: For every fluke you put in your cooler, almost three more die after release—even with careful handling and good intentions.

Share this if you care about the future of our fishery.
Let’s start the conversation: How can we all do better for the fish—and each other?
Click to expand...

Accurate numbers rely on accurate sampling. Assuming every boat in a given area had the same results is highly inaccurate.

The discussion can begin once the season ends and we can assess several criteria: Days fished, fish kept, fish released, etc, etc

Can't jump to conclusions......yet.
 
So here are the variables as I see them:

1/ No accurate counting of private boats (or rec fishermen)

2/ No accurate accounting of days fished by each rec

3/ Keeping short fish? I know for a fact that several charter boats in my area allow the keeping/fast cutting of "close enough" sub-legal fish, so that their fares "go home with something." Obviously no numbers of that catch quantity. (I know this because it came right out of the mouth of some charter captains that I know). Also, we see what goes back in the water from the decks of party boats that fish right next to us. Obvious cheating.

4/ Variable catch results boat to boat/man to man.

5/ I know charter boats must fill out a trip report. Anyone ever check the veracity of those reports? How often?

6/ Boats fishing "NY-area grounds" from NJ. We throw back sub-19" fish (19.5" fish now). NJ boats fishing right next to us put those fish right in their boxes - and sail back to NJ. All legal as most of this fishing occurs outside NYS waters (Federal), but creates an obvious skewing of the NY landings

7/ Right out of a draggerman's mouth while I was at Mark Flynn's old shop - NY boats drag to the West in the morning, land their fish in NJ (illegally? Maybe, I don't know), then drag the same exact trawl line back to the East and land those fish in NY (also probably now illegally). According to him, the fluke will swim to the drag-disturbed bottom to feed on whatever the drag net stirred up. Those fish get caught up on the return trawl. GPS track plotters are the devil's doing. :p

8/ Every now and then a dragger gets bagged for illegal catch quantities. Those reports are few and far between. As I see it, no real accounting for whatever other boats are doing this. I suppose insufficient personnel to properly police this practice.
 
Captain Paul Risi once mentioned to me when I asked if there was any data on mortality rate of fish caught and released. He replied

"Between five percent and fifteen percent. Most fisheries use a number around ten percent. Again, here education goes a long way. People who dig for their hooks on fluke when the eye of the book is inside the mouth, or hold fish by the gills, or even worse inside the gills, can see it close to twenty percent”
 
OVERBORED said:
Accurate numbers rely on accurate sampling. Assuming every boat in a given area had the same results is highly inaccurate.

The discussion can begin once the season ends and we can assess several criteria: Days fished, fish kept, fish released, etc, etc

Can't jump to conclusions......yet.
Click to expand...
Interesting take. I'm thinking my numbers are more accurate than anything they can every come up with. Are there certain assumptions? Yes. But considering the reports I read from a group of over 140 anglers that fish that region about what happened that day, we were pretty average. There were boats that did better and boats that did worse I can guarantee it's much better than anything ASMFC could ever come up with. Their numbers are 50/50 at best and that's by their own admission.

We always complain about the "bean counters behind the desk" making decisions. Now I'm giving you the actual catch data for that small region, and we don't want to accept it? And honestly, I don't think they do any sampling. They take a much smaller number than what I've provided and multiply by who knows what.

As the ASMFC rec representative for weakfish, I can tell you first hand that there was a year where asmfc recorded the entire state of New York as catching 150 pounds of weakfish for the entire year. This was at a time when party boats were targeting and catching good numbers of them. I went to the meeting and was told those were the numbers and no sense in discussing it. Another year they based the entire scup season on a sampling of 76 intercepts. Now you want to talk about "Days fished, fish kept, fish released, etc, etc" Sorry but there is none of that. We may like to think there is but there isn't.

Fisheries management is an abject failure in every sense of the word. Most if not all plans have a 50% chance of success by their own numbers.
 
Still a fan of a fluke slot limit, but why do we need a bag limit of more than two ? this summer has been my worst since the year after Sandy. I have never seen fewer snappers and smaller groups of peanuts (in my area).
 
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