We're Live From The Bass Hearing

From Newsday-
New cuts coming to striped bass fishing

New cuts coming to striped bass fishing
By Mark Harrington[email protected] @MHarringtonNewsUpdated September 5, 2019 8:26 AM
As striped bass season kicks into high gear, fisheries regulators are exploring ways to prop up a stock they say is overfished, including by shortening the existing season.
The state Department of Environmental Conservation is hosting meetings in Farmingdale Wednesday night to explore options for reducing the recreational and commercial harvest of striped bass by 18 percent, compared with 2017, beginning next year, according a report by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, which regulates the fishery.
Measures being considered include mandating the use of circle hooks that cause less damage to fish, new size restrictions and a reduction of the recreational season, which now runs from April 15 through December 15, according to the report.
“The whole idea is to give these fish more breeding time to allow the stock to rebuild,” said Steve Witthuhn, a charterboat captain in Montauk who sits on the DEC’s marine resources advisory council.
About 90 percent of striped bass are caught by recreational anglers, so the measures expected to be discussed Wednesday night are more likely to impact stripers caught by sportsmen.
Even when fish are caught and returned to the water alive, regulators say, 9 percent still die as a result of being caught.
“A large component of annual striped bass mortality is attributed to release mortality,” according to a report on striped bass by the commission.
Spawning female striped bass are estimated to total about 151 million pounds, well below the ideal threshold of 202 million pounds, the commission said.
In all, recreational fishing took about 53.5 million pounds of fish from East Coast waters in 2017, compared with a high of 75.8 million pounds in 2013. The low of 2.7 million pounds in 1984 led to a moratorium on the fish.
“We don’t want to go to a moratorium, so we have to go to some new measures,” said Witthuhn. He said possible measures include opening the season May 1, and ending it on Nov. 30. Another possibility is to limit the allowable size of harvested fish to between 28 inches to 35 inches. That would leave the longer than 35-inch fish to breed, Witthuhn said.
Current rules allow anglers to take one fish longer than 28 inches each day during the season .
On the commercial side, where 622,451 fish were taken coastwide last year, release of dead discards amount for about 13 percent of the total commercial take for the year, the commission said.
Witthuhn said a possible way for the commercial side to reach the 18 percent reduction would be to curb the number of tags commercial fishermen receive each year to land the fish. Right now, fishermen with striped bass permits can land upward of 212 fish a year.
“In general, the reduction in striped bass removals is likely to translate into a short-term negative impact on the regional economy and jobs associated with the fishing industry for the species,” the commission report says.
But it said "the positive long-term economic impacts stemming from the stock recovery and subsequent catch increases in successive years will likely outweigh the short-term impacts.”
Click to expand...
 
I will have a full update here. Including asmfc recommendations. The steam had to sit down early but I did hear a big cheer when McMurrays name was mentioned.

I'm thinking the Hudson River stuff will be discussed at the next hearing. If everyone was like the Hudson River anglers we wouldn't have an issue with bass.
 
Here is the view from the Montauk Surfcasters Association:

Last nights DEC meeting, for public statement on Striped Bass management regulations generated a strong showing. Montauk Surfcasters Association members we’re out in force with more than 40 members packing the room. MSA member John Papciak delivering a passionate appeal for common sense management in the future, while reminding us of the failures of past management. MSA marine resource committee chairmen Capt
Craig Cantelmo shared MSA call for one fish at 35 inch and mandatory circle hooks for bait fishing. Capt Craig also stressed the economic impact that the the loss of the Striped Bass would place on our local communities. MSA Vice President Jay Markowitz drove home parallels of the destruction
of the Striper stock to that of the ignorance that lead to the decimation of the America Buffalo
Herds at the turn of the century,
which ironically was the same time that Striped Bass management began ! Thanks to all those that
Spoke, and to Ross Squire of The New York Coalition for Recreational Fishing for working to solidify a uniform consensus on the call for one fish a 35 inches among the surf fishing community.
 
george said:
I will have a full update here. Including asmfc recommendations. The steam had to sit down early but I did hear a big cheer when McMurrays name was mentioned.
Click to expand...


I attended the meeting yesterday, and it surely wasn't a cheer you heard at the mention of McMurray's name. It's was a resounding round of "boos" and rightfully so as far as I'm concerned (but that's for another discussion).

As I said, I attended the meeting last night, which was a public hearing on the Draft Addendum VI to Amendment 6, based on the 2019 Benchmark Stock Assessment for Striped Bass. It was a fairly well attended meeting with the regulars from the NYS DEC MRAC meetings (Mostly for-hire and some private recreational angler interests), and a large turn out of surf casting organizations (Montauk Surfcasters, High Hill).

It was the standard debate. For-hire wants to be able to fish, take people fishing and make a living on the water. The surfcasters want their "god fish" protected above all else. There couldn't be enough striped bass as far as any of them are concerned, the rest of the Eco-system be damned. Lots of good and fair comments were made on the record, by both sides. Lots of bullshit was also spouted off.

One of the Montauk Surfcasters spoke, about eliminating the use of treble hooks. That's not a bad idea, and would directly be an effect on his represented user group, which often uses plugs carrying 2 or 3 treble hooks. It was a fair comment and a sacrifice he and his brethren would be making on their side, as well as all other anglers. Then he proceeded to ruin all of his credibility with lying about "50 boats fishing in the Block Island Transit Zone every moon tide" to which he was laughed at by the crowd and left the mic. (I fish Montauk on many of the moon tides and can confirm there is not a small navy fishing in the BITZ every moon tide. There aren't even 50 boats fishing most moon tides off Montauk. These ignorant comments also failed to acknowledge the recent enforcement initiative in the BITZ (Operation Level Playing Field) which netted a total of 13 boats, far from 50, but he must do the same math as the Fisheries Managers. . .

Before going to the meeting, I reviewed the Striped Bass Fishery Management Documents going back to the 80's. I started fishing for striped bass in the Mid 80's, when I was a kid, surf casting with my father. I fished for striped bass by beach and boat for many years before I ever caught one, in the mid 90's, around the time they were declared rebuilt. What I found during my research was pretty disturbing, and mirrored what so much of "Fisheries Science" does today, with many other species. That this striped bass emergency appears to be completely manufactured. Blaming the "Best available science' which is conveniently changed to suit the perceived "emergency"

As I said earlier, striped bass were declared restored in 1995. At the time, the spawning stock biomass (SSB, breeding female stock) for this restored level was 13,956 mt/30.7 Million lbs. As a little safety cushion, they set the SSB threshold at 14,000 mt/30.9 Mlbs and the target level at 17,500 mt/38.6 Mlbs. This system worked to bring the stock to a record high level in 2003. At the same time, regulations were in place to allow a greater harvest of the fish. The limits went from 1 @ 36" prior to the rebuilding, to 1 @ 28" after, then 2 @ 28, then 1 @ 28/1 > 40, and finally back to 1 @ 28. This slowed the harvest and the population numbers were starting to level off.

While that was occurring, we were always still basing our management on the same SSB levels set in 1995. Until Addendum II in 2010 which changed the SSB Threshold and Target to 30,000 mt and 37,500 mt respectively. Now, 15 years later, and after successfully rebuilding the stock to a historic high, the "Scientists" were able to definitively state they were more than 100% wrong in 1995, in their estimates of SSB and gave management a new set of goals to achieve. And guess what, it exasperated the downward trend in the striped bass population estimates. But not enough to trigger any action.

Then, we have Addendum IV in 2014 , which again, moved the goal posts, and said they were wrong yet again, and now, the SSB threshold/target was actually 57,600mt/72,000mt. So now, 20 years later, they can even more "accurately" determine that the SSB in 1995 was actually, 4x's more than they estimated in 1995, and successfully managed this species for, for 15 years. And now, instead, the SSB was dangerously close to crossing the trigger for overfishing. . . This brought back the 1 fish at 28" limit, and the harvest had started to level off.

However, it's apparently not enough. Not enough to who? I don't know for sure, but I am starting to believe more and more, the science is being driven by organizations that really want to end fishing.

Now, we have the latest Striped Bass Assessment, and this new draft Addendum IV. . . And guess what is says? It says "they" screwed up, yet again, and they grossly underestimated the SSB in 1995 (24 years ago, and in 2010, and in 2014). It says that now, based on the 2019 Benchmark Stock Assessment, the SSB threshold is 91,436 mt (202 Mlbs) and the target is 114,295 mt (252 Mlbs). 6.5x higher then they estimated it to be in 1995. Oh, and guess what? Now, overfishing is occurring and the stock is overfished, so we're all gonna have to cut back more.


Weellllllllllllll lookie lookie. . . they were finally able to finagle the science/numbers to create the crisis they've been trying to, since 2010. . . . Now the SSB target is as high at the ENTIRE POPULATION was estimated to be at it's peak in 2004.

We're getting the old sand paper hand job, or worse, and I'm absolutely disgusted with it.

Last week I attended an AP meeting for the MAFMC Seabass, Scup and Summer Flounder management and the main take away I got from the meeting was very disturbing. One of the SSC people were there, and at the very end of the meeting, he addressed the room and said,

"Be careful about criticizing MRIP. You all keep saying how bad the numbers/data is/are. Well, what do you think that is going to do as far as building in a safety factor?"

In other words, don't keep telling us we suck. Don't expect us to fix what is clearly broken. Continue to take our bad recommendations, based on bad science, and like it, otherwise, we'll make it worse on you. . .

Truly disgusted. . .
 
Jack_Daniels said:
I attended the meeting yesterday, and it surely wasn't a cheer you heard at the mention of McMurray's name. It's was a resounding round of "boos" and rightfully so as far as I'm concerned (but that's for another discussion).

As I said, I attended the meeting last night, which was a public hearing on the Draft Addendum VI to Amendment 6, based on the 2019 Benchmark Stock Assessment for Striped Bass. It was a fairly well attended meeting with the regulars from the NYS DEC MRAC meetings (Mostly for-hire and some private recreational angler interests), and a large turn out of surf casting organizations (Montauk Surfcasters, High Hill).

It was the standard debate. For-hire wants to be able to fish, take people fishing and make a living on the water. The surfcasters want their "god fish" protected above all else. There couldn't be enough striped bass as far as any of them are concerned, the rest of the Eco-system be damned. Lots of good and fair comments were made on the record, by both sides. Lots of bullshit was also spouted off.

One of the Montauk Surfcasters spoke, about eliminating the use of treble hooks. That's not a bad idea, and would directly be an effect on his represented user group, which often uses plugs carrying 2 or 3 treble hooks. It was a fair comment and a sacrifice he and his brethren would be making on their side, as well as all other anglers. Then he proceeded to ruin all of his credibility with lying about "50 boats fishing in the Block Island Transit Zone every moon tide" to which he was laughed at by the crowd and left the mic. (I fish Montauk on many of the moon tides and can confirm there is not a small navy fishing in the BITZ every moon tide. There aren't even 50 boats fishing most moon tides off Montauk. These ignorant comments also failed to acknowledge the recent enforcement initiative in the BITZ (Operation Level Playing Field) which netted a total of 13 boats, far from 50, but he must do the same math as the Fisheries Managers. . .

Before going to the meeting, I reviewed the Striped Bass Fishery Management Documents going back to the 80's. I started fishing for striped bass in the Mid 80's, when I was a kid, surf casting with my father. I fished for striped bass by beach and boat for many years before I ever caught one, in the mid 90's, around the time they were declared rebuilt. What I found during my research was pretty disturbing, and mirrored what so much of "Fisheries Science" does today, with many other species. That this striped bass emergency appears to be completely manufactured. Blaming the "Best available science' which is conveniently changed to suit the perceived "emergency"

As I said earlier, striped bass were declared restored in 1995. At the time, the spawning stock biomass (SSB, breeding female stock) for this restored level was 13,956 mt/30.7 Million lbs. As a little safety cushion, they set the SSB threshold at 14,000 mt/30.9 Mlbs and the target level at 17,500 mt/38.6 Mlbs. This system worked to bring the stock to a record high level in 2003. At the same time, regulations were in place to allow a greater harvest of the fish. The limits went from 1 @ 36" prior to the rebuilding, to 1 @ 28" after, then 2 @ 28, then 1 @ 28/1 > 40, and finally back to 1 @ 28. This slowed the harvest and the population numbers were starting to level off.

While that was occurring, we were always still basing our management on the same SSB levels set in 1995. Until Addendum II in 2010 which changed the SSB Threshold and Target to 30,000 mt and 37,500 mt respectively. Now, 15 years later, and after successfully rebuilding the stock to a historic high, the "Scientists" were able to definitively state they were more than 100% wrong in 1995, in their estimates of SSB and gave management a new set of goals to achieve. And guess what, it exasperated the downward trend in the striped bass population estimates. But not enough to trigger any action.

Then, we have Addendum IV in 2014 , which again, moved the goal posts, and said they were wrong yet again, and now, the SSB threshold/target was actually 57,600mt/72,000mt. So now, 20 years later, they can even more "accurately" determine that the SSB in 1995 was actually, 4x's more than they estimated in 1995, and successfully managed this species for, for 15 years. And now, instead, the SSB was dangerously close to crossing the trigger for overfishing. . . This brought back the 1 fish at 28" limit, and the harvest had started to level off.

However, it's apparently not enough. Not enough to who? I don't know for sure, but I am starting to believe more and more, the science is being driven by organizations that really want to end fishing.

Now, we have the latest Striped Bass Assessment, and this new draft Addendum IV. . . And guess what is says? It says "they" screwed up, yet again, and they grossly underestimated the SSB in 1995 (24 years ago, and in 2010, and in 2014). It says that now, based on the 2019 Benchmark Stock Assessment, the SSB threshold is 91,436 mt (202 Mlbs) and the target is 114,295 mt (252 Mlbs). 6.5x higher then they estimated it to be in 1995. Oh, and guess what? Now, overfishing is occurring and the stock is overfished, so we're all gonna have to cut back more.


Weellllllllllllll lookie lookie. . . they were finally able to finagle the science/numbers to create the crisis they've been trying to, since 2010. . . . Now the SSB target is as high at the ENTIRE POPULATION was estimated to be at it's peak in 2004.

We're getting the old sand paper hand job, or worse, and I'm absolutely disgusted with it.

Last week I attended an AP meeting for the MAFMC Seabass, Scup and Summer Flounder management and the main take away I got from the meeting was very disturbing. One of the SSC people were there, and at the very end of the meeting, he addressed the room and said,

"Be careful about criticizing MRIP. You all keep saying how bad the numbers/data is/are. Well, what do you think that is going to do as far as building in a safety factor?"

In other words, don't keep telling us we suck. Don't expect us to fix what is clearly broken. Continue to take our bad recommendations, based on bad science, and like it, otherwise, we'll make it worse on you. . .

Truly disgusted. . .
Click to expand...
We were live on Instagram , and I heard cheers for my friend John McMurray. The camera was in the middle of rec anglers. I did hear boos coming from a very distinctive nauseating voice though. And no it wasn’t yours

There's no sense in arguing the data, although you do a damn good job at it. Their own stats give their numbers a 50/50 chance of being right.

The surfcaster was there to defend his passion. He wasn’t worried about who was going to hurt financially, and he doesn’t need to. I give him credit for getting up there in front of everyone and offer to give up treble hooks. He’s worried about the resource. So what someone told him they saw 50 boats at Block and like many fishermen, he retold it. If all anglers were like him we probably wouldn’t be in this position. It’s a full time job staying on top of this stuff, and the vast majority of anglers want to get away from stress by fishing. Many anglers haven’t a clue about fisheries management by choice. And who can blame them?

I think you missed two points. The worst number of them all that’s relevant here is that 48% mortality blamed on rec anglers. I just don’t buy it. And the most important piece is the state of the fishery. I’m guessing you know it’s experiencing issues. Or are you a denier?

I do agree that we will continue to get squeezed, just as you’ve seen in CA. Before we know it our new reefs will be MPA’s. If they stuff a mandatory circle hook rule, it opens the door to other options. Will they stop us from fly fishing for stripers because it’s too stressful? Will we be forced to only night fishing? Will we stop bait fishing before, during, and after the spawn? There is a line in the addendum that basically says we need to reduce the number of targeted trips for recs. That pretty much says it all.

Truly disgusted . . .
 
I'll go one further than getting rid of treble hooks , get rid of barbs on the striper hook ..... Those barbs do all the tearing of flesh ..........
Bluefish Party Boat Klondike got rid of Barbs on their Diamond Jigs over 30 years ago and it hardly affected their catch rate ..........
 
On my charterboat I fish exactly the same waters as the Nancy Ann and Brooklyn Girl. I completely agree with both of their statements, referenced in the article above, about where the size limit should be set, at the current 28" mark. I also know from decades of experience the smaller fish are far superior on the table.

You don't have to have a degree in Fisheries Biology to realize that the larger females, those at 35" and greater", are the most successful spawners and exactly the wrong fish to be removing from the population.
I also agree with Ken Homes' observation that trying to get to a 35" fish means culling a lot of smaller fish, thereby running the risk of killing even more Bass.

Training anglers the proper and safest way to revive and release fish is very important. I also support the use of circle hooks for bait rigs and smaller or even non-existant barbs on lures to further protect the species.

I have been to several of these "public input sessions" before and it seems fruitless. No matter what the actual "on the water" professionals suggest, our regulations always seem to be decided by a bunch of poorly informed administrators! I am not giving up, mind you. but it is a very frustrating experience.
 
pequa1 said:
With logic AND science behind a slot, what could possibly go wrong ?
Click to expand...

Oh, the Fishcrats will find a way/excuse. One I've heard is that slots don't work, although FL has had great success with it for snook, redfish, etc.

IMHO if they were REALLY smart and aggressive they'd go to a slot of like 22 - 26", which protects ALL fish of breeding size. It really breaks my heart to toss a 24" fish back, the perfect dining size according to my taste buds.

In fairness I have no interest in catching a really large one for 2 reasons:

1. SWMBO has said no dead fish on the house walls
2. Large fish are very rare in these parts, 1 keeper his year (31") out of 761 caught so far
 
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