BennyV
Well-Known Angler
How about the Hippocratic oath?
I could careless what others do. I also don't try to ram my agenda down other peoples throats, but hey that's just me.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter wader
- Start date
I could careless what others do. I also don't try to ram my agenda down other peoples throats, but hey that's just me.
Doesn't that just apply to medical doctors? Its all about choice. Choose to refuse vaccination and you might be choosing to eliminate visits to your child's prospective college, the cruise of a lifetime, having to wear a mask in the heat of the summer, being put at a table separate from the vaccinated, and on and on and on. I seem to be in the minority of those who "voted a certain way" but I am a believer in the science and after 32 years "wearing the green" and 35 years with the feds, obviously a joiner, both of which I CHOSE.
Rick67
Well-Known Angler
If you believe your the minority. You are definatly mistaken.
Rick67
Well-Known Angler
Ohm yeah MD’s do not see anyone sick on Long Island if they have a independent practice. You have to go to a Walk In so yes there is a choice.
Couldn’t pay me to be a sheep again!
wader
Well-Known Angler
'I don't wish this on anybody': 24-year-old receives lung and kidney transplant after testing positive for COVID-19
"They stated that he would not make it."
Avenger
Well-Known Angler
All choices that people are FREE to make. There's no mandate or law that says you have to get a vaccine. Lot's of coercion, but no law.
dsedy
Well-Known Angler
The SPARS 2025-2028 Pandemic Scenario
If you want to know what is next with COVID-19....Read this.
Published by Johns Hopkins in 2017, in coordination with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the World Economic Forum, designed a hypothetical scenario and responses playbook for a surprised outbreak of a COVID virus in the year 2025-2028. The Playbook document is for governments, and government leadership, to navigate the hypothetical (now real) scenario. Basically it is a War Game/Plan document that serves as a roadmap for a futuristic script that is being played out in real time today, 2020-2023.
The playbook from 2017, scenarios, and responses that are discussed, parallels and mirrors, the current state we are in with Covid-19.
This is the excerpt.
SPARS Pandemic Scenario | Projects: Center for Health Security
The full PDF document (70 pages) from Johns Hopkins is the first link at the bottom of the page.
Hope you all take some time to read this.
If you want to know what is next with COVID-19....Read this.
Published by Johns Hopkins in 2017, in coordination with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the World Economic Forum, designed a hypothetical scenario and responses playbook for a surprised outbreak of a COVID virus in the year 2025-2028. The Playbook document is for governments, and government leadership, to navigate the hypothetical (now real) scenario. Basically it is a War Game/Plan document that serves as a roadmap for a futuristic script that is being played out in real time today, 2020-2023.
The playbook from 2017, scenarios, and responses that are discussed, parallels and mirrors, the current state we are in with Covid-19.
This is the excerpt.
SPARS Pandemic Scenario | Projects: Center for Health Security
The full PDF document (70 pages) from Johns Hopkins is the first link at the bottom of the page.
Hope you all take some time to read this.
Last edited:
At least five U.S. colleges and universities have announced plans in the last few days to require Covid-19 vaccinations for students who will be on campus in the fall. But many more colleges have said they would not require vaccination or would wait and see before setting a policy.
Students at Cornell University in New York, Rutgers University in New Jersey, Fort Lewis College in Colorado, Nova Southeastern University in Florida and St. Edward’s University in Texas will have to be vaccinated before the fall term begins, with a few exceptions for medical, religious or other reasons.
“Covid-19 has made it very clear just how impactful and necessary it is for us to have an educational experience in person, and vaccines are our way of ensuring that we can be together for a normal fall semester,” Tom Stritikus, the president of Fort Lewis, wrote in a letter explaining the mandate.
Though most universities have been open in some capacity since the fall, campus life has been fundamentally reshaped by the virus. Quarantines, masks and mandatory testing have become part of the college experience. And when major outbreaks emerged, some schools shifted classes online or even sent students home.
The debate about whether and how to mandate vaccination is playing out on campuses across the country, as shots are becoming available to college-age adults for the first time. Some schools are rushing to offer the shots to as many current students as possible before the summer break.
But the issue of requiring vaccinations is also shaping into an ideological debate falling along political lines. Some Republicans, including Gov. Ron DeSantis in Florida, are calling vaccine requirements overreach pushed by Democrats.
A day after Nova Southeastern University, based in Fort Lauderdale, announced its policy for returning students to be vaccinated, Mr. DeSantis issued an executive order banning state and local government agencies and businesses from requiring so-called vaccine passports, or documentation proving that someone has been vaccinated against Covid-19.
The university’s president and chief executive officer, Dr. George Hanbury, said the school was caught off guard by the governor’s order.
“We’re not trying to do anything but protect our students,” Dr. Hanbury told the Times on Monday and said the university is reviewing the governor’s order and plans to follow it. The university has a wide range of health programs, and, Dr. Hanbury said, many students participate in rotations at hospitals and other health settings where they are required to be vaccinated. “So, to me it didn’t seem like it was a hard extension to require it for everybody else, especially at the advice from health professionals.”
In Ohio, where all adults became eligible for the vaccine last week, Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, announced plans to hold on-campus vaccine clinics. Many Ohio colleges have said the vaccines will, at least for now, be encouraged but not mandatory; Cleveland State has said that students living in its dorms next fall must be vaccinated.
“While fewer of our young people get sick from Covid, the evidence clearly shows that they are significant carriers,” Mr. DeWine said. “It is a strategic move, frankly, to vaccinate them on campus before they get out in early May for the summer and scatter throughout the state and throughout the country.”
Some colleges have offered incentives to be vaccinated. Dickinson State University in North Dakota exempts vaccinated students from the campus mask mandate. Davidson College in North Carolina gives employees who are fully vaccinated a $100 bonus. Several colleges say vaccinated students will be able to skip the coronavirus testing that they require of others.
In recent weeks, the number of virus cases around the country has been increasing to what health officials consider dangerous levels, which includes the spread of new variants that, in some cases, are more contagious. As of Sunday, there have been an average of 18 percent more cases compared with two weeks earlier, according to a New York Times database.
Health officials are pleading with Americans to get vaccinated and to continue taking health precautions, with the hope that the growing inoculated population will stave off another surge of cases. As of Sunday, more than 61 million Americans were fully vaccinated, and 106 million have received at least one dose, according to a Times analysis of data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The country is administering an average of more than three million shots a day.
Colleges were a significant locus of coronavirus outbreaks after students returned to many campuses last fall, with more than 120,000 cases of the coronavirus to linked American colleges and universities since Jan. 1, and more than 530,000 cases since the beginning of the pandemic, the Times reported.
In December, a Times analysis of the 203 U.S. counties where college students compose at least 10 percent of the population found that deaths in those communities had risen faster than in the rest of the nation. Few of the victims were students; they were mainly older people living and working in those communities.
Students at Cornell University in New York, Rutgers University in New Jersey, Fort Lewis College in Colorado, Nova Southeastern University in Florida and St. Edward’s University in Texas will have to be vaccinated before the fall term begins, with a few exceptions for medical, religious or other reasons.
“Covid-19 has made it very clear just how impactful and necessary it is for us to have an educational experience in person, and vaccines are our way of ensuring that we can be together for a normal fall semester,” Tom Stritikus, the president of Fort Lewis, wrote in a letter explaining the mandate.
Though most universities have been open in some capacity since the fall, campus life has been fundamentally reshaped by the virus. Quarantines, masks and mandatory testing have become part of the college experience. And when major outbreaks emerged, some schools shifted classes online or even sent students home.
The debate about whether and how to mandate vaccination is playing out on campuses across the country, as shots are becoming available to college-age adults for the first time. Some schools are rushing to offer the shots to as many current students as possible before the summer break.
But the issue of requiring vaccinations is also shaping into an ideological debate falling along political lines. Some Republicans, including Gov. Ron DeSantis in Florida, are calling vaccine requirements overreach pushed by Democrats.
A day after Nova Southeastern University, based in Fort Lauderdale, announced its policy for returning students to be vaccinated, Mr. DeSantis issued an executive order banning state and local government agencies and businesses from requiring so-called vaccine passports, or documentation proving that someone has been vaccinated against Covid-19.
The university’s president and chief executive officer, Dr. George Hanbury, said the school was caught off guard by the governor’s order.
“We’re not trying to do anything but protect our students,” Dr. Hanbury told the Times on Monday and said the university is reviewing the governor’s order and plans to follow it. The university has a wide range of health programs, and, Dr. Hanbury said, many students participate in rotations at hospitals and other health settings where they are required to be vaccinated. “So, to me it didn’t seem like it was a hard extension to require it for everybody else, especially at the advice from health professionals.”
In Ohio, where all adults became eligible for the vaccine last week, Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, announced plans to hold on-campus vaccine clinics. Many Ohio colleges have said the vaccines will, at least for now, be encouraged but not mandatory; Cleveland State has said that students living in its dorms next fall must be vaccinated.
“While fewer of our young people get sick from Covid, the evidence clearly shows that they are significant carriers,” Mr. DeWine said. “It is a strategic move, frankly, to vaccinate them on campus before they get out in early May for the summer and scatter throughout the state and throughout the country.”
Some colleges have offered incentives to be vaccinated. Dickinson State University in North Dakota exempts vaccinated students from the campus mask mandate. Davidson College in North Carolina gives employees who are fully vaccinated a $100 bonus. Several colleges say vaccinated students will be able to skip the coronavirus testing that they require of others.
In recent weeks, the number of virus cases around the country has been increasing to what health officials consider dangerous levels, which includes the spread of new variants that, in some cases, are more contagious. As of Sunday, there have been an average of 18 percent more cases compared with two weeks earlier, according to a New York Times database.
Health officials are pleading with Americans to get vaccinated and to continue taking health precautions, with the hope that the growing inoculated population will stave off another surge of cases. As of Sunday, more than 61 million Americans were fully vaccinated, and 106 million have received at least one dose, according to a Times analysis of data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The country is administering an average of more than three million shots a day.
Colleges were a significant locus of coronavirus outbreaks after students returned to many campuses last fall, with more than 120,000 cases of the coronavirus to linked American colleges and universities since Jan. 1, and more than 530,000 cases since the beginning of the pandemic, the Times reported.
In December, a Times analysis of the 203 U.S. counties where college students compose at least 10 percent of the population found that deaths in those communities had risen faster than in the rest of the nation. Few of the victims were students; they were mainly older people living and working in those communities.
What I am getting at is that the largest percentage per capita of "deniers" is those that vote Row B. I have always voted for the RINOs but definitely (lol) do not agree with them on this issue. Those refusing to get vaccinated are just handicapping our nation's goal of herd immunity. While the seriousness of this illness is overblown in the media, it has still killed over half a million Americans, and not all over them were elderly or "decrepit." Just waiting for a valid method of proving our vaccinations, probably with some heretofore unspoken database; definitely not with the little paper card or Cuomo's Excelsior Pass. (and hoping that the European countries will not require masks by the time our rescheduled cruise in the fall of 2022 arrives.
OVERBORED
Well-Known Angler
Obviously, any healthcare provider would/should not turn away any sick individual. I did present the scenario to make a point and bring on a healthy discussion.
My problem is when YOUR freedom to not get vaccinated, not wear a mask and not isolate while having symptoms affects the many who you came in contact with. The many who might live with or be high risk individuals. The many who didnt know you were not vaccinated or sick but never had a choice to stay away from you.
I support our constitution. I am a registered Republican BUT when it comes to Covid, it seems FREEDOM is more about telling the establishment FU and not any particular belief. Thats the most pathetic reason of all.
Just my opinion...............Hammer away!
My problem is when YOUR freedom to not get vaccinated, not wear a mask and not isolate while having symptoms affects the many who you came in contact with. The many who might live with or be high risk individuals. The many who didnt know you were not vaccinated or sick but never had a choice to stay away from you.
I support our constitution. I am a registered Republican BUT when it comes to Covid, it seems FREEDOM is more about telling the establishment FU and not any particular belief. Thats the most pathetic reason of all.
Just my opinion...............Hammer away!
Ah, the private sector expresses their constitutional rights...
NEW YORK — Although Texas no longer requires people to wear masks to protect against COVID-19, customers do need them to enter De J. Lozada’s store.
“We cannot afford to take chances with the lives of my staffers. They’re young people and their parents have entrusted me with their care,” says Lozada, owner of Soul Popped Gourmet Popcorn, a shop located in Austin’s Barton Creek Square Mall.
Lozada is also concerned about her 85-year-old father, who will return to his part-time job in the store this month. She has a staffer stationed at the door to her shop who will tell anyone without a mask that they cannot enter.
Eighteen states currently have no mask requirements, including some that have never made face coverings mandatory. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott lifted his state’s mask mandate on March 2, and Indiana expects to end its mandate on Tuesday.
But many business owners like Lozada are keeping their own rules in place, requiring staffers and customers alike to wear masks for the sake of protecting everybody, particularly their employees.
And the law is on an owner’s side. A company’s premises are private property, so owners can insist that customers wear masks, just as restaurants can require that diners wear shoes and shirts in order to be served, says Michael Jones, an attorney with the law firm Eckert Seamans in Philadelphia.
"Storeowners, business owners have the absolute right to require customers, vendors, anyone who comes onto their property to wear a mask,” Jones says. It’s legal as long as owners don’t enforce their requirements in a discriminatory way, he says.
If a customer enters a store without a mask, is asked to leave and doesn’t, that could be trespassing under the law. Lozada says she would call 911 if faced with that situation.
Most retail chains require employees and customers to wear masks. One exception, Foot Locker, says each store is following the requirements of the state where it’s located.
Employers have an obligation under federal law and some state laws to provide a safe workplace for their employees, and that can include requiring everyone on the premises to wear masks. In the COVID-19 section of its website, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration notes that employers are required to have a workplace “free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm.”
When employees at Inteplast Group question why they have to wear masks, managers at the plastic products manufacturer can point to the law, says Brenda Wilson, senior director of human resources and communications of the Livingston, New Jersey-based company that has facilities in 22 states. At this point, masks to protect against COVID-19 are as important as the eye and ear protection that factory workers must wear. But she says Inteplast’s customers also need to be protected.
“They are depending on us to get the products out. If we have an outbreak and that results in losing manufacturing capacity, then no one’s going to win,” Wilson says.
Some businesses want masks on, even as states drop mandates
The law sides with owners as a company's premises are private property.NEW YORK — Although Texas no longer requires people to wear masks to protect against COVID-19, customers do need them to enter De J. Lozada’s store.
“We cannot afford to take chances with the lives of my staffers. They’re young people and their parents have entrusted me with their care,” says Lozada, owner of Soul Popped Gourmet Popcorn, a shop located in Austin’s Barton Creek Square Mall.
Lozada is also concerned about her 85-year-old father, who will return to his part-time job in the store this month. She has a staffer stationed at the door to her shop who will tell anyone without a mask that they cannot enter.
Eighteen states currently have no mask requirements, including some that have never made face coverings mandatory. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott lifted his state’s mask mandate on March 2, and Indiana expects to end its mandate on Tuesday.
But many business owners like Lozada are keeping their own rules in place, requiring staffers and customers alike to wear masks for the sake of protecting everybody, particularly their employees.
And the law is on an owner’s side. A company’s premises are private property, so owners can insist that customers wear masks, just as restaurants can require that diners wear shoes and shirts in order to be served, says Michael Jones, an attorney with the law firm Eckert Seamans in Philadelphia.
"Storeowners, business owners have the absolute right to require customers, vendors, anyone who comes onto their property to wear a mask,” Jones says. It’s legal as long as owners don’t enforce their requirements in a discriminatory way, he says.
If a customer enters a store without a mask, is asked to leave and doesn’t, that could be trespassing under the law. Lozada says she would call 911 if faced with that situation.
Most retail chains require employees and customers to wear masks. One exception, Foot Locker, says each store is following the requirements of the state where it’s located.
Employers have an obligation under federal law and some state laws to provide a safe workplace for their employees, and that can include requiring everyone on the premises to wear masks. In the COVID-19 section of its website, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration notes that employers are required to have a workplace “free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm.”
When employees at Inteplast Group question why they have to wear masks, managers at the plastic products manufacturer can point to the law, says Brenda Wilson, senior director of human resources and communications of the Livingston, New Jersey-based company that has facilities in 22 states. At this point, masks to protect against COVID-19 are as important as the eye and ear protection that factory workers must wear. But she says Inteplast’s customers also need to be protected.
“They are depending on us to get the products out. If we have an outbreak and that results in losing manufacturing capacity, then no one’s going to win,” Wilson says.
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
Have you ever noticed how when you tell "some" people they can't have something that they will fight tooth and nail to get it? Or if you tell them to do something they won't? Also in reverse if they have can't do something or they have to have something. It's called being ornery...they ZIG when everyone ZAGS
Or as I would say, "Most people try to land on an aircraft carrier longwise. That numnutz would insist on coming in sideways!!"
Chinacat
Well-Known Angler
Please go ahead and delete my entire post because I absolutely had no intention of saying anything that resembles that statement.
thank you
thought only you or the "super" mod could do that ( ? )
Avenger
Well-Known Angler
I guess I should have expected that you wouldn't feel that way, but I understand the resentment too. OTOH, if someone is going to interact with other people I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to take reasonable precautions to protect the people they encounter unless these people have agreed to the same level of risk. Or they're free to not interact.
See, I have this strange libertarian idea that you can do what you want until it effects other people. Then you need to respect their autonomy as you would have them respect yours.
If one was vaccinated how could they infect someone who wasnt they were vaccinated they should be good to go?
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