Coronavirus

[Roccus7]

i no asked this earlier got no response

what the death rate of omnicron vs the seasonal flu ( after adjusting for the delta left overs)
I’m going to go out on a limb and say not to far off

Unfortunately you won't get a US answer, as they don't type each case of COVID. You'll notice all numbers on variants like Delta & Omicron as %. They'll take 100 or so positive samples and type them, giving the percentages.

It's all modeling statistics. Look at the recent "reclassification" from CDC where that 73% Omicron numbers were dropped into the 50s...

Not saying if it's right or wrong, just saying that's just how it is. Personally, I always prefer a complete data set...

 

[TonySmjc]

I know
Seams to be an on going issue
No idea how many have had it
What type they have had
if they are even in a hospital for or with covid
And if the died for or with covid

numbers matter

 

[wader]

Unfortunately you won't get a US answer, as they don't type each case of COVID. You'll notice all numbers on variants like Delta & Omicron as %. They'll take 100 or so positive samples and type them, giving the percentages.

It's all modeling statistics. Look at the recent "reclassification" from CDC where that 73% Omicron numbers were dropped into the 50s...

Not saying if it's right or wrong, just saying that's just how it is. Personally, I always prefer a complete data set...

as you said - no breakdown on the variants however this seems to be the way they are stacking up (which I've posted several times only to have the ones comparing it to flu ignoring it - but what the hell - I'll post it again):

Flu 2019 & 2020
The overall burden of influenza (flu) for the 2019-2020 was an estimated 35 million flu-related illnesses, 16 million flu-related medical visits, 380,000 flu-related hospitalizations, and 20,000 flu-related deaths (Table 1).
Flu 2018 - 2019
The overall burden of influenza (flu) for the 2018-2019 season was an estimated 29 million flu illnesses, 13 million flu-related medical visits, 380,000 flu-related hospitalizations, and 28,000 flu deaths (Table 1).
Flu 2017 - 2018
The overall burden of flu for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 41 million flu-related illnesses, 19 million flu-related medical visits, 710,000 flu-related hospitalizations, and 52,000 flu-related deaths (Table 1).

more CDC information on the flu here

COVID 19 - 2020 & 2021
Deaths: 823,000
Cases: 585,000
Hospializations: 80,000

So there have been a much larger number of Deaths from COVID in the last two years (823K) then all flu related deaths since 2017 combined (100K). More cases of the flu (probably because so few actually get a flu shot (I only started last year).

Striking....

 

[cany]

Read some where that the covid test couldnt tell the difference between covid and the flu thats why the CDC wants a new test that can separate the two

 

[wader]

Read some where that the covid test couldnt tell the difference between covid and the flu thats why the CDC wants a new test that can separate the two

ditto

 

[cany]

ditto

you saw that too?

 

[Roccus7]

Read some where that the covid test couldnt tell the difference between covid and the flu thats why the CDC wants a new test that can separate the two

ditto

GOOD GOD!!! Stop reading headlines written by some copy editor trying to make a sensation and actually read the article!!

Here, read this post and check the CDC link: Coronavirus

But if that's too cumbersome, here's a proper summary. The CDC will stop shipping its COVID PCR test tomorrow. That's a good thing since the CDC isn't in the business of mass producing diagnostic tests, and their roll out of this test had many problems, "Rookie" mistakes that showed their unfamiliarity with test manufacture and quality control.

That test, like most ALL of the COVID PCR tests ONLY test for COVID. It's NOT that their test can't differentiate between COVID and the FLU, it only looks for COVID, like MOST of the PCR tests that currently have EUAs. Of course, the way the news is received because of the headline and social media misinformation, folks may think that the test calls both flu and as a positive COVID result.

In their announcement, they told that they hoped some companies would come out with a multiplexed test that could test for both COVID and the flu.

Such a test would have 4 possible results...
Possible Result 1: Patient POSITIVE for BOTH COVID and FLU
Possible Result 2: Patient is NEGATIVE for BOTH COVID and FLU
Possible Result 3: Patient is POSITIVE for COVID, but NEGATIVE for FLU
Possible Result 4: Patient is NEGATIVE for COVID, but POSITIVE for FLU

OK, understand?

 

[cany]

Quietly without media attention, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has withdrawn the PCR process as a valid test for detecting and identifying SARS-CoV-2.​

“After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only.”


The CDC admits that the PCR test cannot differentiate between SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses.

 

[cany]

Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Laureate and inventor of the PCR process said several years ago that “the PCR is a process. It does not tell you that you are sick.” It was never meant to be a Covid test.

 

[Roccus7]

Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Laureate and inventor of the PCR process said several years ago that “the PCR is a process. It does not tell you that you are sick.” It was never meant to be a Covid test.

ABSOLUTELY TRUE!! If you read many of my posts, I've always said that PCR is a scientist's way to find a needle in a haystack, be that needle the nucleic acid of COVID, Flu, or even left toe nail disease.

I was HORRIFIED to see them refer to the PCR COVID test as a "Diagnostic Test". It just says there's COVID RNA in the sample, not the AMOUNT of RNA in the sample, period, nor if the person is sick, will get sick or is recovering. A positive result just means there is some COVID nucleic acid up your nose. Call me old fashioned, but from my perspective a "Diagnostic Test" should help a physician determine the status of a patients health and prognosis.

The PCR process is exquisitely sensitive. AAMOF if there was a single COVID strand in a sample and the PCR is run for 40 cycles, that single strand would now be 550 BILLION strands!! Like I said, the proverbial needle in the haystack. Some places do run 40 cycles, while others run 35 cycles (34 billion copies) or even 25 cycles (33 million copies). And when the lab runs the PCR test, there is no numerical result given, just a "Presence" or "Absence" of COVID Nucleic Acids.

With vaccinated folks, the use of PCR as a "Diagnostic Test" is even more problematic. Contrary to popular belief, for a vaccine to work, you actully have to have an infection, the bug has to get inside you. So let's say someone who has been fully vaxed and boosted, does get some COVID up their nose and the virus is now successfully being fought off by the antibodies that the vaccine helped them develop. If this person is tested we have a person who would be "diagnosed" as a Positive COVID result and a "Breakthrough" infection, even though they really aren't SICK and the vaccine is doing its job!!

This infuriates me and is so misleading to folks trying to figure this all out. Oh look at all the "Breakthrough Cases", why get should I get vaccinated?

Now in defense of using the PCR test at the start of all this, it's really easy to make a PCR test once the viral sequence is established, and that was done very quickly in the case of COVID. This terrible disease needed some sort of test quickly and PCR was the way to do this. It's just too bad there hasn't been more work done since then to develop a truly diagnostic test.

OK, I've ranted enough.

 

[cany]

So t was never meant to be a Covid test?

 

[Roccus7]

So t was never meant to be a Covid test?

It's an identify test, and a damn good one. To call it a "Diagnostic Test" is just plain wrong if you want a diagnostic test to actually tell you anything besides "Kilroy was here"...

 

[cany]

It's an identify test, and a damn good one. To call it a "Diagnostic Test" is just plain wrong if you want a diagnostic test to actually tell you anything besides "Kilroy was here"...

But Can it identify between Covid and the FLU?

 

[Roccus7]

But Can it identify between Covid and the FLU?

Can a single compression test tell the compression of all the cylinders in the same time??? No, right?

Of course if you put a pressure gauge in each cylinder then it could, just like if a lab put the primers and unique signal generators for COVID, FLU and left toe nail disease into the assay.

This assay was never designed that way and it wasn't pulled off the market because it couldn't tell the difference between COVID and FLU. They did it because there were more than enough tests out there by companies more skilled in making, distributing and supporting PCR assays.

 

[cany]

Can a single compression test tell the compression of all the cylinders in the same time??? No, right?

Of course if you put a pressure gauge in each cylinder then it could, just like if a lab put the primers and unique signal generators for COVID, FLU and left toe nail disease into the assay.

This assay was never designed that way and it wasn't pulled off the market because it couldn't tell the difference between COVID and FLU. They did it because there were more than enough tests out there by companies more skilled in making, distributing and supporting PCR assays.

Ok guess the people saying the tests couldnt tell the difference are wrong

 

[TonySmjc]

as you said - no breakdown on the variants however this seems to be the way they are stacking up (which I've posted several times only to have the ones comparing it to flu ignoring it - but what the hell - I'll post it again):

Flu 2019 & 2020
The overall burden of influenza (flu) for the 2019-2020 was an estimated 35 million flu-related illnesses, 16 million flu-related medical visits, 380,000 flu-related hospitalizations, and 20,000 flu-related deaths (Table 1).
Flu 2018 - 2019
The overall burden of influenza (flu) for the 2018-2019 season was an estimated 29 million flu illnesses, 13 million flu-related medical visits, 380,000 flu-related hospitalizations, and 28,000 flu deaths (Table 1).
Flu 2017 - 2018
The overall burden of flu for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 41 million flu-related illnesses, 19 million flu-related medical visits, 710,000 flu-related hospitalizations, and 52,000 flu-related deaths (Table 1).

more CDC information on the flu here

COVID 19 - 2020 & 2021
Deaths: 823,000
Cases: 585,000
Hospializations: 80,000

So there have been a much larger number of Deaths from COVID in the last two years (823K) then all flu related deaths since 2017 combined (100K). More cases of the flu (probably because so few actually get a flu shot (I only started last year).

Striking....

So you can’t read
I said number of deaths from Omni cron
I even went as far as to say
Adjusting for the delta variant which is being pushed out by ombicron

 

[TonySmjc]

4 guys
One that had 6 months ago fairly seriously no vax then or now
One that got j n j vax
One that got moderna
One that got fizer
All now exhibiting mild symptoms

no common connection between the 4 of them

it’s inevitable that everyone’s going to get it

and just for context
Only one has tested so if this is any example

times badly given estimate of cases by at least 3 if not more

 

[wader]

So you can’t read
I said number of deaths from Omni cron
I even went as far as to say
Adjusting for the delta variant which is being pushed out by ombicron

My reaing skills are just fine thank you...........

I know what the F**K you said - I started the reply with the fact that they don't break it out between variants. Roccus told you the same F***ING thing.

So what's your F***ing Point??

 

[TonySmjc]

My point exactly
If they don’t they are spinning their wheels
And pushing your buttons for nothing
Accurate numbers matter
A lot

 

[TonySmjc]

If this variant is no more deadly than seasonal flu

wtf are we doing
Hell do we even know who’s got the seasonal flu
Do we really know anything of value

nope