Does Anyone Care Any More?

george

Administrator
Staff member
I'm going to kick off this board with a simple question that I honestly do not know the answer to. Do recreational anglers still have what it takes to save our right to fish? I may have been MIA from local websites, but I have stayed involved in fisheries management and in the over 30-years I've been involved I have never seen such an absence of recreational anglers involved in the process. We have somehow managed to allow fisheries managers to all but eliminate us from many of our traditional fisheries, when we were never the problem to begin with. And when I say we, I include the for-hire industry.

We are losing access to our traditional fisheries at a rate like I've never seen. I understand that many New York anglers are intimidated to simply attend some of these hearings, myself included, but I go. Even though the decisi0on is usually made before the hearing. From blackfish, to bluefish, to sea bass, and next striped bass, recreational anglers are absent from the equation. There was a time when we made a real difference when legislators listened and considered our wants and needs. Now it's like we're not even in the room.

Where are our leaders? Who are our leaders? Where is the New York Sportfishing Federation? Do they have any members? What about the local CCA? How many dues-paying anglers do they actually represent?

I'm not attacking anyone here, I just want to know where everyone is and what have they accomplished? Is there a plan on how to approach the coming reduction of striped bass? Will fisheries managers be successful in their efforts to separate the charter and party boat industry from the rec sector when the truth is its rec anglers on those boats for hire.

There was a time when we made a huge difference and accomplished things that seemed impossible. I was at the helm when we managed to pass the bunker legislation that has resulted in bunker being found in waters we haven't seen in years. That bill took 2-years of constant work to get passed, but it was worth it. In addition to having enough forage fish for our inshore fisheries. We now have bald eagles as well as more Ospreys in decades, nesting along the Long Island coast due in large part to the availability of bunker. As a LI Sound anger, I can say with certainty that I have never seen this many bunkers. We didn't get that done by screaming and yelling at meetings, we got it done the right way, through our elected officials.

We passed that bill while facing one of the most organized and influential harvesters of bunker in the nation, Omega Protein. If we beat them, we can beat anyone. Recently a few phone calls preserved the remains of the TZ Bridge to be added to our fishing reefs. Had those calls not been made they would have been added to our rail cars that NJ anglers are now seeing the fruits of. Screaming and yelling at meetings NEVER end up well - NEVER.

It's time we step up to the plate and use the power of social media to organize a strategy to make sure we are the major players at the upcoming striped bass battle that is almost certain to be here soon. We need to be united with the for-hire sector. Remember they are nothing more than Uber for anglers. They're not setting a gill net, or dragging or setting a mile of hooks and bait. They are fishing with a rod and reel, hoping to catch that fish of a lifetime. Don't buy into the crap that charter and party boats are our enemies because they're not the problem.

So who is going to run with it? You better watch closely as they all claim to represent you and this coming battle cannot be won on the hearing level.
 
Hi George,

That is a very valid question. All I have is my opinion, right or wrong. Started being taken fishing by my father when I was 5 years old. I will be 80 years old in 2019. Many tide changes have come and gone in those years. The same can be said for the generations. Family life has also changed many times along this path. Life has changed and what was important to us in the day may not be as important to todays generation.

I have changed over the years. As a young fisherman missing a trip was a major set back. Today not so much. Today I am glad to wake up, see the sunshine and enjoy the fine family God has blessed me with. I still love being near or on the salt water. Fishing does not always have to be a part of it.

Over the years I have tried in my own way to help the fishing situation. Too often other people did not care and would not give their support. Too many fisherman are too busy, don't care, refuse to get involved or just want to take what they want from the salt water. All this and age has worn me down. What use to be important to me is less so today and has been replaced by more important things.

There is a great lack of faith and respect in our country. My thought is that this filters down to where our feet meet the road. I do not see our fishing situations getting better overall nor major numbers of people getting involved to make it better. Times are so different.

Sorry.

Neil
 
People only care about what effects them from doing their daily tasks and they do little else. It’s going to come down to the few passionate people that are left in this industry to make up the lions share of the racket.
 
Damned if I know, no easy answers. There's so much discord amongst the recreational fisherman, it's almost impossible to get a rallying point that all can agree on. Let's take stripers for an example.

You have the "Gamefish Only" contingent, hell bent on stopping all commercial activity, even though the rec landings far outweigh the reported commercial landings. The more radical wing of this gang is even promoting no retention!!

You have the "Local Interests" that endorse and encourage inane rules like being able to target, catch and retain breeding females during the spawn on the spawning grounds of the Hudson River!!?????

And then you have the Fisheries Managers that use the "Best Available Science" to continue to manage single species instead of managing ecosystems. The single species insanity results in sinusoidal peaks and valleys in species as restrictions allow them to flourish and then it's suddenly realized there's a glut and we have to increase the pressure on them because they're forcing out other species so let's increase the catch, which then starts the downward fall.

With stripers, the single species thing enters a greater insanity. The rumors that are circulating about indicate that the newest survey will suggest the biomass of the spawning fish continues to drop and is approaching a dangerous nadir. If that's true who in their right mind would propose laws that encourage retention of breeding fish??? That's what the 28" limit does. Slot limits are perfect tools for breeding fish management, and there could always be some allocation for a few "Trophy Tags" per season to allow the retention of a limited number of the big girls. Florida has been very successful with slots and for a few years Maine was smart enough to have one on stripers.
 
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You have summed it up pretty well and I/we have dealt with this before. Fact is I feel like we are right back to where we were in the 2000’s. Everybody wants their piece and alliances are starting to be made. Pretty soon we’ll be hearing about all of the bycatch that both recs and coms waste. Then we’re going to argue the slot size, which sadly just about all user groups oppose. Then it will be gill nets targeted and draggers. Then of course they will find a way to pick the pockets of our charter and party boats by charging them for more fish. That helps them in their efforts to divide and conquor. The DEC will probably Tom try to expand the region of the com fishery across all of NY to appease them for any reduction they might see.

I’ve seen it over and over. When the fish are plentiful everyone wants more, and when the fisherie declines no one wants to take the hit.

I am here representing this board, and I’m still involved in fisheries management. I want to get a feel for what our members want because this striped bass thing is going to hit like a ton of bricks, and all the screaming in the world isn’t going to accomplish anything. It’s a slippery slope, but it’s one I have had success at in the past, and if there’s one good thing that comes out of this board, it will be us, the recreational angler, overseeing the health of our striped bass. Most have forgotten the lean years when unless you were a sharpie the only bass you saw were pictures in magazines.

Like it or not our striped bass fishery is a fragile one and the greed we have seen over the past 10-years is now coming home to roost. It will once again be up to us, the recreational angler, to stay on top of our fisheries managers as they plot the future of what is arguable the most valuable fish on the coast.

We will keep a close eye on things as they pan out, and we WILL be heard 9n closed door meetings with legislators that know where their votes come from. I’m getting too old to deal with the animosity and disorganized nature of our local hearings. They are nothing more then an opportunity to vent. By the time we get to hearings, the decisions have already been made. And that is a fact.

Thanks,
George
 
I am here representing this board, and I’m still involved in fisheries management. I want to get a feel for what our members want because this striped bass thing is going to hit like a ton of bricks, and all the screaming in the world isn’t going to accomplish anything.

Put me firmly in the "time for a slot, 22 - 30ish", and a 1 - 3 Trophy Tags a year column.
 
I think data should rule fisheries management, not economic interest. The balance should skew very heavily in favor of best available science, and if in the short term industry (both "rec" for-hire and comm) takes a hit, so be it. They'll take a permanent hit if the stock collapses, that's for sure.
 
A 22 - 30" slot will remove females that have yet to spawn even once...

Yes, but better to remove a fish that "might" spawn than removing fecund, healthy fish that have spawned and will continue to do so. Furthermore, a small 28" fish produces far less eggs per lb than a 30 lb fish so we need to keep the larger ones in the spawning biomass.
 
I agree 100% with what Neil said. There are many contributing factors to the decline of New York State's fisheries, but the one thing I feel like he really nailed is the lack of faith & respect in this country as a whole. That translates to our lack of respect for our fellow fishermen/women & our fisheries. I can only speak for the recreational aspect because I'm not knowledgeable enough about our Commercial Fishing brethren to make educated comments on their situation.

When I'm out fishing I see an increasing number of people that show no respect for rules & regulations, size limits, boating etiquette, common sense, safety & personal space. When anchored on a piece you have NO reasonable expectation anymore that you won't get mugged. Guys will pull up in between your anchors to steal your numbers and they couldn't care less. When you're in a fleet of a dozen boats and making drifts in a particular area a random dummy will come and anchor his boat right smack in the middle of the drift because he saw a net or two come out. I watch guys keep fluke, porgies, bass & tog that could barely make a sandwich on an English muffin. I watch clowns that will drive past a kayaker at 30 knots in a 45' sportfisher. I've seen a genius run at 20 knots between a diver approaching his boat and his dive flag...nearly running him over!

Does any of this sound familiar to you? None of it is conducive to a healthy fishery.

I also agree with Neil when he says that he doesn't see it getting any better for us here in NY state. 48,000 people fled this state from July 2017-July 2018. That sounded like a small number to me - considering what we've turned into.
 
And our wonderful Governor has the nerve blame "Climate Change" for the migration of people away from NY. Publicly, in an interview. I can't wait to get out of here.
 
There is no escaping saltwater regulations if you're going to stay in the USA! We actually have it good compared to the west coast. If you were to purchase a license and stamps for all of their inshore waters it would cost you over $100 a year in fees. Then you have the regs! About 7 years ago I fished a 1/2 day trip out of San Diego. By the time I was finished paying for my license, my rod rental and then whatever stamp was required it cost me over $130. It took the mate almost the entire 20-minute run out just to explain the regs.

I agree that boaters today don't get it. But maybe I'm just getting older and less tolerant.
 
...... I understand that many New York anglers are intimidated to simply attend some of these hearings, myself included, but I go. Even though the decision is usually made before the hearing........

I think this is one of the biggest reasons many don't attend. When it turns out to be a waste of time over and over again, people get discouraged.
 
I am here representing this board, and I’m still involved in fisheries management. I want to get a feel for what our members want because this striped bass thing is going to hit like a ton of bricks, and all the screaming in the world isn’t going to accomplish anything.

Put me firmly in the "time for a slot, 22 - 30ish", and a 1 - 3 Trophy Tags a year column.

I'm right there with you Roccus, and have been for a long time.

Definitely in favor of a slot limit for stripers.
 
DEC / FEDS decide on regs months / years before holding 'public ' hearings ......The 'farce' will continue indefinitely ... The fishing industry has paid a very heavy price ....................
 
Good to see you guys again. Most of you probably know that I did an independent assessment of the striped bass stocks about a year ago. It's up on youtube and if you haven't seen it, I'll provide a link. The video is long, a little over an hour, and it took me months of hard work to produce it. It starts with the simple stuff, the ASMFC narratives, and then I work my way in from there, so you really have to watch the whole video to understand my conclusions. I won't delve into it other than to say that the striped bass have been mis-managed for a long time now, and the stocks are in deep decline. Everybody is holding their breath to see if 2011 and 2015 year classes are going to help, but I think because of myco and it's progressive 8 year nature, many of those fish will sink to the bottom of the ocean. And that's one of the problems, representing mortality accurately. I also agree with anybody that believes the entire ecosystem needs to be managed, not species by species. Anybody remember the dogfish debacle lol. Also, slot size worked well for Redfish (my main target down here in VA) so I don't think it can hurt the bass population and can only help. The short version being, if you have a decent size breeding female, perhaps resistant to myco, that female is worth more than a small, probably infected fish that won't reach it's 8th year. And yes, the trophy season down here and Maryland is crazy. Anyway, good to be here.
 
Good to see you guys again. Most of you probably know that I did an independent assessment of the striped bass stocks about a year ago. It's up on youtube and if you haven't seen it, I'll provide a link. The video is long, a little over an hour, and it took me months of hard work to produce it. It starts with the simple stuff, the ASMFC narratives, and then I work my way in from there, so you really have to watch the whole video to understand my conclusions. I won't delve into it other than to say that the striped bass have been mis-managed for a long time now, and the stocks are in deep decline. Everybody is holding their breath to see if 2011 and 2015 year classes are going to help, but I think because of myco and it's progressive 8 year nature, many of those fish will sink to the bottom of the ocean. And that's one of the problems, representing mortality accurately. I also agree with anybody that believes the entire ecosystem needs to be managed, not species by species. Anybody remember the dogfish debacle lol. Also, slot size worked well for Redfish (my main target down here in VA) so I don't think it can hurt the bass population and can only help. The short version being, if you have a decent size breeding female, perhaps resistant to myco, that female is worth more than a small, probably infected fish that won't reach it's 8th year. And yes, the trophy season down here and Maryland is crazy. Anyway, good to be here.
The assessment is enligtning, factual, and tries to take everything into account. It makes way too much sense for fisheries managers. I already hearing whispers that all states are pushing back addressing. When have we seen this before?
 
My opinion of fisheries managers are that they are a bunch of accountants and mathematicians, a case of theory not knowing what the problem really is. And like all policy making entities, they can be influences by external interests.
 
My opinion of fisheries managers are that they are a bunch of accountants and mathematicians, a case of theory not knowing what the problem really is. And like all policy making entities, they can be influences by external interests.

The latest tog assessment in 2016 has both NY and NJ grossly overfishing the stock. The technical committee urges a 50% take reduction NOW, immediately, and what does the ASMFC decide? Continue with current regs until 2029.

So it really depends where you lay the blame in the process. By "external interests," at least in the case for blackfish...you must be referring to the for-hire and comm fleets exerting political pressure on the commission to keep status quo.


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My opinion of fisheries managers are that they are a bunch of accountants and mathematicians, a case of theory not knowing what the problem really is. And like all policy making entities, they can be influences by external interests.

Agreed 100%!! I think it should be mandatory that the Number Cruncher and Bean Counters do some field work every year so they actually "see" what they're dealing with!!!
 
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