Fluke, sea bass and scup

[MakoMike]

Most of yesterday's MAFMC/ASMFC meeting dealt with setting 2022 measures for these three species on the recreational side of things.. They started off with fluke, where we could have seen a substantial liberalization. Instead they settled on about a 16% liberalization by directing the states to lower their minimum size limits by 1/2 inch.Then things got tough. Next ip was scup (porgies) where the numbers called for a substantial reduction in landings, about 55%. Instead of going for the full reduction they opted to increase the size limits by 1 inch everywhere. That is supposed to reduce the landing by about 30%. However, GARFO will not approve the numbers without the full reduction, so we are likely to see a total ban on scup fishing in Federal waters. That won't affect most fishermen who fish for scup in state waters, but it will have a big impact down south where most of the scup fishing takes place in Federal waters. It will also put some of the Montauk porgies spots, like the aptly named porgy hump off limits. Last up was black sea bass. The numbers said we needed to reduce sea bass landings by 28% (including a "payback" for going over the limits in the three prior years). Instead they voted to reduce the landing by 14%. GARFO/NMFS has not said what they will do, but its certain that they will have to do something. My guess is that the feds wil either close the season for sometime on federal waters or completely ban possession of sea bass in federal waters. We will just have to wait and see.



They also approved Preferred alternatives for the reallocation of the share of the total catch between recreational and commercial fishermen. The shares they approved as the preferred alternatives are (commercial/recreational) fluke 55/45, scup 65/35 and sea bass 45/55. For scup and ea bass that would be a huge increase in the recreational share of the catch. The amendment still has a long way to go before it becomes effective for the 2023 fishing year and I expect the commercial representatives to make another push for maintaining the status quo, so stay tuned for further developments.

 

[Snapprhead27]

Is the fluke affected by the state/federal waters?

 

[MakoMike]

Is the fluke affected by the state/federal waters?

No, the increase in fluke quota, which translates to a 1/2 inch size reduction is consistent with the numbers.

 

[Bassmaster]

I usually catch porgies as a bycatch and usually if your targeting porgies you can fish Long Island sound or near the rockaway jetty so the federal mandate is not that big a deal. But if they close the sea bass fishery in federal waters that is a disaster. Your basically shutting down all sea bass fisheries in Captree and other south shore boats. Anything new on this

 

[MakoMike]

I usually catch porgies as a bycatch and usually if your targeting porgies you can fish Long Island sound or near the rockaway jetty so the federal mandate is not that big a deal. But if they close the sea bass fishery in federal waters that is a disaster. Your basically shutting down all sea bass fisheries in Captree and other south shore boats. Anything new on this

They changed their mind, now there will be a 20.7% reduction in the recreational sea bass catch.

 

[Leprechaun]

A REDUCTION in Sea Bass? Who's doing the sampling? Helen Keller?

 

[Bassmaster]

They changed their mind, now there will be a 20.7% reduction in the recreational sea bass catch.

Rather have a reduction than close federal waters

 

[CaptFP]

Some days we catch more sea bass than sea robbins. Unreal!

 

[captmike28]

They changed their mind, now there will be a 20.7% reduction in the recreational sea bass catch.

So, if this rule change takes effect does that mean we will go from a 3 fish bag limit to 2 fish bag limit for inshore waters like LIS, late June to Aug 31? or will they just shorten the season? As Capt. FP noted the volume of Sea Bass is literally pushing many other species off the grounds.
This is really insane!

 

[CaptFP]

Sounds to me like this is going to put more pressure on fluke this year. So what, a reduced bag/size increase for 2023 or '24?

 

[BennyV]

Definitely a head scratcher.

 

[Bassmaster]

I use gold diamond jigs when I fish for sea bass in Montauk. Sea bass love the jig. I usually wait till we limit out on sea bass either the 3 of us or two of us. As soon as we get the limit for bass I use gulp or bucktails for fluke. Before I switch to fluke we usually have 6 or 9 keepers. One time we went to the windmills and the boat arrived at 9am and from 9 to 12 the 3 of us had our sea bass limits and had countless shorts. The 3 of us combined probably had over 100 sea bass. I switch to bait gulp bucktails and I don't get a fluke not one for an hour. I switch back to the jig and I get countless sea bass for the last half hour of the trip probably had 25 to 30 in a half hour. There is no shortage at all it makes no sense.

 

[Bassmaster]

Sounds to me like this is going to put more pressure on fluke this year. So what, a reduced bag/size increase for 2023 or '24?

There are not many full day fluke boats anymore. Most are half day or boats just fish for porgies and sea bass. I used to catch 50 to 60 fluke on the diamond jig now I am lucky I get one on a trip. Last year I had one keeper fluke on the last day of the year. And 10 shorts for the year which is an improvement over the last several years.

 

[george]

I wish I could say I'm shocked about this one, but once again they have it wrong. I'd like to see the sampling data. We all see what's happening to our great fluke fishery, which has been mismanaged. Or maybe it hasn't! Maybe there headed offshore following the flounder fishery, another mismanaged fishery that disappeared from inshore waters. There is evidence that weakfish, another failure, have moved offshore also. So now we're being told we can take more fluke and less sea bass. If anything I'd think it would be the other way around. I have never seen so many sea bass in the LIS in my life.

These agencies have a tough job trying to count fish. Then they come up with regulations for an entire coast based on those numbers. One year our porgy regs were based on less than 30-intercepts of rec anglers.

I can remember back when we were told we just need to raise the fluke limit to 14-inches and everything would be fine. How did that work out?

Anyhow, here's the info on the proposal. You can join in a zoom meeting.


The Division of Marine Fisheries is holding a virtual public scoping meeting regarding the setting of 2022 recreational measures for summer flounder (fluke) and black sea bass as follows:

Thursday, February 17, 2022

6:30 PM

Zoom Registration Link:

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_d0oVulSnR0-LOCUWkfLQzg​

Interstate deliberations have identified the opportunity to increase fluke recreational harvest by 16.5% coastwide and the need to reduce black sea bass recreational harvest by 20.7% coastwide in order to achieve but not exceed their recreational harvest limits (RHL) for 2022. These decisions were based on a comparison of the species’ average coastwide recreational harvest the past four years (2018–2021) to their 2022 RHLs. Each management region is tasked with developing regulatory proposals to achieve these outcomes; regional proposals are due to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission later this month.

In advance of this and to inform regional discussions, DMF is seeking public input on preferred approaches to achieve the liberalization for fluke and reduction for black sea bass. Note that Massachusetts is considered its own region for fluke and thus has considerable flexibility to develop its own regulatory proposals achieving the 16.5% liberalization using the approved methodology. For black sea bass, the state must work cooperatively with its Northern Region partners of Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New York to develop regulatory proposals; while state regulations within the region may differ, each state is expected to contribute to achieving the required 20.7% regional harvest reduction.

You must register online in advance to attend the virtual meeting; after registering, you will receive a confirmation e-mail containing information to join the meeting. Those unable to attend the meeting or preferring to submit written input after the meeting can e-mail Director Daniel McKiernan at [email protected]. Such e-mail must be received by Monday, February 21 to be reviewed in time for regional proposal development. For more information, please contact Nichola Meserve at [email protected] or

617-626-1531.

 

[MakoMike]

How the reductions or increases will be done is up to the states.

 

[pequa1]

Almost happy my sons don't fish or hunt. Both activities are doomed.

 

[Bassmaster]

Almost happy my sons don't fish or hunt. Both activities are doomed.

It's sad. All we are looking for is something to eat.

 

[george]

How the reductions or increases will be done is up to the states.

I never agreed with their "conservation equivalencies." It's micromanaging at its worst and the proof is it has NEVER worked. It's just another gimmick that results in states battling states, anglers having to throw back a "short" that is somehow a keeper for the angler in the boat next to them because they'll be headed to a different port. This is where most of the politics come into play.

The facts are clear, aside from Striped Bass, which had more money spent on restoration than any other fishery on the east coast, it's just not working. Fluke, flounder, weakfish, bluefish, blowfish, mackerel, and herring just to name a few of our fisheries that are in trouble. I hope I'm wrong but I can't help but think the slot fish on bass is going to eventually have a negative effect on the fishery.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers, and I do believe that our managers are doing their best. But it can't be denied that we're failing.

 

[CaptFP]

How the reductions or increases will be done is up to the states.

If its up to the states what's the use in having regionalization? I fish mainly western Long Island Sound from NY ports. I fish literally next to Connecticut boats that are keeping 5 sea bass a day before NY season is even open.

 

[captmike28]

It's the same if not worse for us in the Peconics in the spring, Capt FP.. The CT boats team across the sound to wail on the Porgies and are also taking all those big. beautiful "Heartbreak" Sea Bass we have to return until our season opens over a month later. In fact, those May and early to mid-June fish are some of the biggest Sea Bass we see in the Peconics all year. Once the NY fishery opens, we have to fish the Sound to actually catch keepers. No way to manage a fishery in my mind either.