How Long Can This Continue? Tog Slaughter

Are you kidding me? Recreational anglers have caused the decline of tautog? Please.

Commercial fishermen are out there 270 days a year with pots from April through December, while we get 40-60 days at best. Keep in mind, pots are fishing 24 hours a day, seven days a week, in every weather condition, while recreational anglers miss out on the best months and best weeks due to conditions.

The pot fishery has stunted the tautog biomass, which is why we dont see many double-digit fish anymore. Commercials keep a 15-inch blackfish, while we have to keep a 16-inch fish.

There was a time when 82% of tautog were caught recreationally. I don't know what the numbers are now, nor would I trust them, but I'd bet this is no longer a recreational fishery, its a commercial one.
 
@poorrichard The issue isn’t a lack of enforcement—it’s weak regulations that make illegal tautog harvesting too easy. With fewer than 100 DEC officers covering over 1,000 miles of shoreline, they can’t be everywhere at once.

Meanwhile, last year, 182,950 tags were issued to just 481 commercial participants, averaging 380 tags each, creating plenty of opportunity for abuse.

Stricter commercial enforcement—like real-time reporting, reduced tag allocations, and tougher penalties—would go much further in curbing illegal fishing than simply blaming officers who are stretched too thin.
 
In all the enforcement cases and subsequent penalties I've read about, NEVER was a license suspended or revoked. Not even for repeat offenders or the more egregious abuses.(That I'm aware of)IMHO that's the only leverage that would work.
 
OVERBORED said:
At the very least, looks to be over the 25 fish limit
Click to expand...
Overboard, there's nothing wrong with that photo. You are making a lot of assumptions in this thread. All of those fish appear to be tagged. All appear to be bigger than 15". There could be 200 fish in those totes and be legal. This photo could be in my backyard without all the pallets and concrete. A commercial blackfish boat has tags. Those tags have a number on them. Those numbers indicate who caught and sold the fish. Do you really think I would put a tag on a 13" and send it to the market? The fish have to be reported electronically or on a paper form by the 15th of each month. That's the law. And, that law is changing. I don't have all the particulars but it seems we will have to do daily reporting. Fisherman are allowed to pen fish until they make arrangements for their buyer to pick them up. You could have one or you could have 500+. To do that legally, the fish has to be legal size, tagged and reported. Again, that's the law. From there, it can be sold or stored in your pen or consumed. At this point, it's a commodity. The price fluctuates through the year. Many commercial fishermen will hold their fish and wait for a higher price. I do. I know you probably don't want to hear this but you're going way overboard with your assumptions from a photo.
 
The only one making assumptions about guys sticking to the letter of the law: 25fish/day, tags in every fish, 1 limit per boat, not mixing tags with other license holders, is you.

While your operation might be above board, I guarantee you that abuses are rampant!

I've seen it year after year and it's why I stopped fishing with ALOT of license holders.
 
Overboard, I'm sorry to hear that you fished with guys catching blackfish illegally year after year. You and your crew should have been ticketed for breaking the law. For me, it would have been one trip and done. I'm legit and so is my crew. I see abuse all the time on the recreational side too as I'm blackfishing. They see me legally fishing for blackfish and don't realize I can legally do it. So they begin fishing for them too. Most of the time it's for bass candy but they take big fish too. Seems each boat is happy after they catch a few pails of small fish which they either fish that day or bring home and pen. Sad to say, those small fish will never make it to being a big fish after making it through the hardest part of their life. Could that also be part of the reason for the decline in big blackfish? Absolutely. They are seeing it in bass as the small fish aren't returning in the numbers they once were thus in a few years we won't have as many big fish. If I was the DEC, I could bust a dozen sport boats a day fall bass fishing with illegal blackfish. Overboard, you say, abuse is rampant but if it is, it's on both sides. Unfortunately, you only want to point out the commercial side and you don't really have the all the facts. Just like your take on the photo in this thread, you were the judge, jury and would be executioner but you don't have the facts and still ran rampant with all sorts of accusations.
 
Hey @Crabman I'm curious about a few things that I'm hoping you can help with. Are you limited to the number of pots yuh can set? How many pots are typically set and how long do they soak? If you reach your limit of 25 and still have fish in other pots, do they have to be released or can you leave them for the next hsul? Are you required to release females during the spawn? Is there a preferred size the market wants?

I know it's a lot, and I could go on, but I can't find these answers anyway.
 
Hi George. I would love to help you out but I pin hook. All those regs are available through the NYS DEC. I can tell you, all the over the limit fish caught on a particular day must be returned to the water just like any fishing limit, commercial or recreational. As for size, the markets want legal fish and that's what I give them. I don't fish the spring so I don't catch the spawning fish. I believe in conservation and have worked with the NYS DEC. Like many recreational boats, I only fish the fall run. You might not like the spring harvest regs and I also would like to see them stopped but it's the law right now and those who do fish in the spring are not subject to opinions.
 
BTW, I keep reading about the twenty-five blackfish limit for commercial blackfishing on this site while potting. FYI, when a commercial boat is potting for lobsters and catches blackfish, he can only retain ten legal blackfish if he has six or more lobsters in his possession.

Commercial Harvest Limits

This page contains a summary of trip limits for quota managed commercial fisheries in New York.
dec.ny.gov dec.ny.gov
 
Crabman said:
Overboard, I'm sorry to hear that you fished with guys catching blackfish illegally year after year. You and your crew should have been ticketed for breaking the law. For me, it would have been one trip and done. I'm legit and so is my crew. I see abuse all the time on the recreational side too as I'm blackfishing. They see me legally fishing for blackfish and don't realize I can legally do it. So they begin fishing for them too. Most of the time it's for bass candy but they take big fish too. Seems each boat is happy after they catch a few pails of small fish which they either fish that day or bring home and pen. Sad to say, those small fish will never make it to being a big fish after making it through the hardest part of their life. Could that also be part of the reason for the decline in big blackfish? Absolutely. They are seeing it in bass as the small fish aren't returning in the numbers they once were thus in a few years we won't have as many big fish. If I was the DEC, I could bust a dozen sport boats a day fall bass fishing with illegal blackfish. Overboard, you say, abuse is rampant but if it is, it's on both sides. Unfortunately, you only want to point out the commercial side and you don't really have the all the facts. Just like your take on the photo in this thread, you were the judge, jury and would be executioner but you don't have the facts and still ran rampant with all sorts of accusations.
Click to expand...
I'm only pointing out the commercial side of things because the post was started with a picture of commercially tagged blackfish.

My frustration is more with enforcement and the lack of a meaningful penalty more than anything else. That goes for Comm &Recs. Many guys consider a summons the price of doing business.
 
Overboard, I totally agree with everything you said and have the same feelings. Do it once, you get to talk to the Judge. Do it again, get your checkbook out.
 
Crabman
Sorry we're all putting you on the spot and I don't want you to catch heat. I know you don't speak for all coms, but my understanding (maybe I'm wrong) is that the buyers will take, but are not excited about huge fish.
What is your view? Would coms strongly object to a slot limit at say 15 to 22, 25 or 28 inches?
 
Matts. I would love slots limits of 15-18" for tautog. I truly am a conservationist with a commercial license. I had my hay day of blackfishing. While dredging crabs, I caught hermit crabs and stored them for my blackfishing trips. It's blackfish herion in the winter. I fished the ten mile wrecks all winter and caught the shit out of them. We didn't catch small blackfish with a big juicy hermit on the hook. For the most part, no one was out there with us in January and Februry. There were no limits. Those days are over for me. I don't want to clean the ocean out. I hate draggers and gill netting. Get rid of pots while you are at it. Make it a pin hook fishery. Let the big fish spawn. Shutdown the spring season for spawning. And, you are right, I don't speak for other commercial fisherman who would probably hate my suggestions. Yes, you are correct, my buyers and markets don't like the big blackfish. The smaller fish can be enjoyed by two people or one hungry person. A big fish is a big fish when it's a blackfish and that's usually too big for one or two people. Just my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions.
 
Crabman said:
BTW, I keep reading about the twenty-five blackfish limit for commercial blackfishing on this site while potting. FYI, when a commercial boat is potting for lobsters and catches blackfish, he can only retain ten legal blackfish if he has six or more lobsters in his possession.

Commercial Harvest Limits

This page contains a summary of trip limits for quota managed commercial fisheries in New York.
dec.ny.gov dec.ny.gov
Click to expand...
I helped write that bill and held strong for 25 fish. At first the lobstermen were totally shut out and we all agreed to the current regs.
 
What time frame was that George? I'm sure you remember there was a thriving lobster industry off NY Harbor until the warmer water moved in. They must have slayed the blackfish back then.
 
Interesting. I actually was talking about Pataki today. In the late 1990's the NYSDEC was going to implement a drastic crabbing law. It was based on incorrect information and if enacted, I was going to go out of business. Perhaps you remember Phil Briggs at the DEC. He headed up finfish and crustaceans. I told him his information was wrong and asked that he come out on my boat to see what was really going on. He refused. I went up the chain but the DEC would not budge. So, I wrote to Gov. Pataki and explained the situation. I know it probably wasn't him but he was very proactive with regards to fishing in general. Within a week he ordered the DEC to go out on my boat and see what was what. I was really up against a law that was already written and ready to be enforced. Phil showed up at my house. He was old as Moses but very knowledgeable. We sat in my kitchen as I had breakfast and talked while he smoked a pipe. I showed him my logs and told him to pick any spots he wanted to investigate. My wife was my crew and the three of us left the dock in the middle of January which was the middle of my crabbing season. We went here, we went there and everywhere he wanted to take a look. I asked him what are you looking for and he showed me. He was hoping to find flounder eggs attached to shells that came up in the dredge. He didn't find any. If he did, I was done for. The DEC wanted the flounder to make a comeback. We discussed the lifespan of a crab. It's such an interesting creature. I caught a lot of crab usually averaging 40 bushel a day of live crab. When late March came, 90% of the crab I caught I caught was dead. Nearly 100% of the dead were females. (A female blueclaw only live 1 1/2 - 2 years, a male could live 4 years). I brought Phil into an area of dead crabs. Phil broke open a live crab and put a dot of it's blood on his thumb nail. It clotted into a stiff gelotinous mass. Next, he took a weak, dying crab and put it's blood on his thumb nail. It stayed liquid. Phil explained how crabs have an open circulatory system. In the late winter, the females crabs get weak and their blood turns into water. He said it was gray crab disease. Essentially they hemoraged to death. We had a great day together. Phil said he really learned a lot and I said I did too. He assured me the new crab law would be shelved. If it did come that they would enact the law, I was going to be grandfathered. I was truly amazed how fast Gov. Pataki's office acted. Without his help, my specially designed custom downeast crab boat would become a boat. That was my Governor Pataki experience.
 
📱 Fish Smarter with the NYAngler App!
Launch Now

Members online

Total: 153 (members: 10, guests: 143)

Fishing Reports

Latest posts

Latest articles

Back
Top