Should They Board, or Shouldn't they?

[george]

@overboard Here is your quote and then my response to your take on enforcement

Freedoms......what a joke.

Stop and see frisk was the single biggest deterrent of crime in NYC but unfortunately couldn't survive the liberal axe.

Being stopped and questioned by a boat with 6 armed federalies in Panama was a fairly good deterrent.

Getting boarded is not such a big deal as you make it out to be. It's the only thing we have that could possibly prevent complete anarchy on the water.


My response:

I back law enforcement and I am far from a liberal. But I do not agree with the idea that someone can look at you and say check him he looks like a bad guy. That is not how freedom works.

Anarchy? Anglers do not poach because we fear getting caught. We know the odds of that happening are next to nothing. We follow the law because we respect it and because we care about the fishery. Even if every recreational angler who kept a short or went over the limit was caught it would not add one more fish for anyone. That is not the same as a commercial poacher filling a truck to sell fish.

We waste too much time on this as if it is the fix for rebuilding fisheries. All it really does is make us look bad while changing nothing at all.

 

[OVERBORED]

Is there ever a "correct" way to enforce the law?

In a conversation with a friend about the West Indian parade in Brooklyn, years ago, some superiors were so worried about wrongful arrests that they ordered officers to to ignore gun shots unless the saw the perp with a gun in their hand.

Do we tell DEC to sit tight and wait until they see a guy with a short on a filet table at the dock? How exactly are they supposed to enforce the regulations without the element of surprise?

 

[Avenger]

I wonder how you'd feel about police cars randomly pulling you over any time you're driving because it's possible that you may be committing a crime.

 

[longcast]

I wonder how you'd feel about police cars randomly pulling you over any time you're driving because it's possible that you may be committing a crime.

Excellent analogy.

 

[Chinacat]

I wonder how you'd feel about police cars randomly pulling you over any time you're driving because it's possible that you may be committing a crime.

What do you think it must be like to be a brown skinned dude between 20-25 years old?

 

[Avenger]

What do you think it must be like to be a brown skinned dude between 20-25 years old?

Funny how we seem to be on the same page about the abuse of law enforcement powers, but you couch it in terms of race.

 

[OVERBORED]

I wonder how you'd feel about police cars randomly pulling you over any time you're driving because it's possible that you may be committing a crime.

Funny you should mention that. I've worked in Brooklyn for 30+years. When I owned my Yukon with tinted windows, I was pulled over about once a month. When I showed my work ID they let me go. I have nothing to hide. I don't fear but welcome law enforce checking me!

 

[Avenger]

Funny you should mention that. I've worked in Brooklyn for 30+years. When I owned my Yukon with tinted windows, I was pulled over about once a month. When I showed my work ID they let me go. I have nothing to hide. I don't fear but welcome law enforce checking me!

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

Did you just actually quote Joseph Goebbels to justify your argument?

'Scuse me while I pick up my jaw.

 

[OVERBORED]

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

Did you just actually quote Joseph Goebbels to justify your argument?

'Scuse me while I pick up my jaw.

Was unintentional. I'm not that smart.

 

[Matts]

It seems to me that some probable cause ought to be required before an officer of the state can stop, i.e., temporarily arrest you to search your boat.
The law says that in general, you cannot stop someone without probable cause. But there are exceptions.
For example, the police can set up check points on New Year's eve, as long as the stoppages are for everyone or random, but not based on car style or driver type, etc..
It seems to me that if they see you catch and retain a fish, there is arguably slight probable cause to check your catch.
Digging deeper, is fishing a fundamental right like walking down the street, voting, or assembly in a town square; or is it a privilege and not as protected as speech or religion? Your boat is not your person or your home.
If fishing is an unprotected privilege, then perhaps by electing to fish you implicitly agree to be boarded and have your boat checked.
It's complicated, but in my mind, there should be some type of probable cause required to board your boat.

 

[OVERBORED]

Plain and simply put, when someone finds the balls and has the resources to take a law written in the 1700s to the supreme Court it will be modified.

 

[Chinacat]

Funny how we seem to be on the same page about the abuse of law enforcement powers, but you couch it in terms of race.

Unfortunately its a reality and I choose not to ignore it
As I mentioned in other discussions I’ve had more than my share of over aggressive LEO’s busting my stones based on my looks
As such, I guess I’m more in tune with it and more sympathetic to peeps that get profiled, racially or otherwise

Regardless of all that, on my boat me and anybody aboard abides by the rules whether we agree with them or not so I have no issue with a boarding or random check of my catch because I know we have nothing to hide. If I have to play by the rules why shouldn’t everyone else so check me and check others too

 

[george]

Plain and simply put, when someone finds the balls and has the resources to take a law written in the 1700s to the supreme Court it will be modified.

Not true. Managing fisheries in state waters is left to each individual state. Florida just passed a law this year banning it, in part because of an incident where FWC followed anglers to a Walmart parking lot. I posted it below. The search itself starts around the 20 minute mark.

Here is another example. A couple of guys got together this past Labor Day for what should have been a relaxing day on the water. They dig their bait, rent a skiff from a local business, something not enough people support anymore, and head out excited for a great day. They are bothering no one, yet become the target of our fish saving DEC. At one point an officer even says, “we were watching you with binoculars for a while.” If that is the case, why decide to stop and frisk them when they did not even have a single fish on the boat. Watch the full video and listen to the comments. They were convinced they were targeted. And I do not believe for a second it was a one off.

​

 

[Avenger]

Unfortunately its a reality and I choose not to ignore it
As I mentioned in other discussions I’ve had more than my share of over aggressive LEO’s busting my stones based on my looks
As such, I guess I’m more in tune with it and more sympathetic to peeps that get profiled, racially or otherwise.

Alright. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But as you said, it happens to you, that's not racial. Some people, like the kids with the fart-can exhausts, just wave the "pull me over" flag.

We'll see what happens when I get the Corvette on the road and drive like I usually do. If you're right, a bright red Corvette should be a cop magnet like a black man driving a large powdered donut.

Regardless of all that, on my boat me and anybody aboard abides by the rules whether we agree with them or not so I have no issue with a boarding or random check of my catch because I know we have nothing to hide. If I have to play by the rules why shouldn’t everyone else so check me and check others too

So, you're propping up your argument with Goebbels too? In your first statement you resent police hassling you. But if you've got nothing to hide why is that a problem?

Our constitutional protections are there for a reason and you're throwing them away. Because "you've got nothing to hide" you think you're safe?

 

[Chinacat]

Alright. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But as you said, it happens to you, that's not racial. Some people, like the kids with the fart-can exhausts, just wave the "pull me over" flag.

We'll see what happens when I get the Corvette on the road and drive like I usually do. If you're right, a bright red Corvette should be a cop magnet like a black man driving a large powdered donut.




So, you're propping up your argument with Goebbels too? In your first statement you resent police hassling you. But if you've got nothing to hide why is that a problem?

Our constitutional protections are there for a reason and you're throwing them away. Because "you've got nothing to hide" you think you're safe?

Im 60 years old my friend
The days of getting my balls busted were 30-40 years ago so Ive evolved LOL

I guess where Im going with this is can a bunch of middle aged and above white guys be upset about getting their rights infringed on to check their catch but not be outspoken or concerned about young people of color being harasssed or by what ICE and the national guard are currently doing across the country?

 

[OVERBORED]

Not true. Managing fisheries in state waters is left to each individual state. Florida just passed a law this year banning it, in part because of an incident where FWC followed anglers to a Walmart parking lot. I posted it below. The search itself starts around the 20 minute mark.

Here is another example. A couple of guys got together this past Labor Day for what should have been a relaxing day on the water. They dig their bait, rent a skiff from a local business, something not enough people support anymore, and head out excited for a great day. They are bothering no one, yet become the target of our fish saving DEC. At one point an officer even says, “we were watching you with binoculars for a while.” If that is the case, why decide to stop and frisk them when they did not even have a single fish on the boat. Watch the full video and listen to the comments. They were convinced they were targeted. And I do not believe for a second it was a one off.

​

Apples and oranges.

The thread was about boardings on the water which, as I stated is protected by law. Following someone to a parking lot is harassment plain and simple.

 

[longcast]

Hoping this can get back on track. Boardings on the water.......................

Not sure why it went elsewhere. Well, maybe.

No, please do not disturb "me" time. It is short and precious. That is my only time to unwind and enjoy the sport I love.

 

[george]

Apples and oranges.

The thread was about boardings on the water which, as I stated is protected by law. Following someone to a parking lot is harassment plain and simple.

Agreed. Our officers here in NY have the same authority. And to be clear, I'm referring to fishing violations and DEC. Did you look at the other video? It sure says a lot.

 

[george]

Hoping this can get back on track. Boardings on the water.......................

Not sure why it went elsewhere. Well, maybe.

No, please do not disturb "me" time. It is short and precious. That is my only time to unwind and enjoy the sport I love.

Well said.

 

[OVERBORED]

A longtime Jbay fisherman and know poacher just got in busted. 35 bluefish over the limit. 10 in the cooler. The rest hidden around the boat. Do we applaud DEC for the bust or complain that they shouldn't have searched the is boat?