wader
Well-Known Angler
at least he checked it before posting some more "fake news" which "your savior" seemed to be so fond of complaining about
Coronavirus
- Thread starter wader
- Start date
OVERBORED
Well-Known Angler
So for those of you who are still hanging your hats on Darwinism working things out, consider Sweden (The model for herd immunuty as they did not initiate lockdowns/masking).
In Sweden, daily COVID-19 deaths per million increased by 1,200% between Aug. 1 and Dec. 1. 5,300 deaths
This could mean alot of things including the older population in Sweden.
However, comparatively speaking, death rates in neighboring countries were markedly lower during the same time period: 250 in Norway, 600 in Denmark and 325 in Finland, all of which have populations around half the size.
5,300 vs 250, 600 and 325
This is an isolated instance but a good illustration of how Sweden's approach was an EPIC failure and serves as a cautionary tale for the rest of the world.
Get Vaccinated......Its less harmful than that computer screen you sit in front of for hours!
In Sweden, daily COVID-19 deaths per million increased by 1,200% between Aug. 1 and Dec. 1. 5,300 deaths
This could mean alot of things including the older population in Sweden.
However, comparatively speaking, death rates in neighboring countries were markedly lower during the same time period: 250 in Norway, 600 in Denmark and 325 in Finland, all of which have populations around half the size.
5,300 vs 250, 600 and 325
This is an isolated instance but a good illustration of how Sweden's approach was an EPIC failure and serves as a cautionary tale for the rest of the world.
Get Vaccinated......Its less harmful than that computer screen you sit in front of for hours!
movetheboat
Well-Known Angler
Rick67
Well-Known Angler
Using Reuters to fact check is like asking a trans to act straight. Neither can do it.
Do love the fake news though. They have tanked so bad that they are turning on their own. They wish my savior would do something to change their narratives right now.
Regardless of veracity, [et's see how this plays out. If Berger remains true to his conviction, he'll resign instead of disobeying a direct order from the CnC, gaining my respect for his personal integrity, while confirming that his genome is composed of more than the normal amount of Neanderthal genes, which seems to be pretty common among "His Corp".
TonySmjc
Well-Known Angler
I’ve your arguments were getting you anywhere you wouldn’t need fear
Things that are really really great never need to be sold
I bet you buy gold and silver cause the man on tv tells you to
You might find you’d get a better response if you simply stoped over selling
Or in your case over fear mongering
TonySmjc
Well-Known Angler
This is 2021
The information is out there
no one is or should be uninformed
you’ll just have to accept the fact that there IS conflicting and truthful information on all sides of this debate
in life there are very very few irrefutable facts
In a free country people with free will , will and should make up their own minds
You’ll simple need to accept that
And you do you
doesn’t take anything more complicated than that
Such is life in a free society
Deal with it
The information is out there
no one is or should be uninformed
you’ll just have to accept the fact that there IS conflicting and truthful information on all sides of this debate
in life there are very very few irrefutable facts
In a free country people with free will , will and should make up their own minds
You’ll simple need to accept that
And you do you
doesn’t take anything more complicated than that
Such is life in a free society
Deal with it
TonySmjc
Well-Known Angler
And it never will move
The covid ice berg is here forever
The only question is how we will deal with it
And on that point there is much debate
you want your way
And feel it’s the way
not everyone agrees
What ya gonna do
Jail em
Shoot em
Not in this country
sad part even if you go down the road your on and fire them from their jobs
stupid liberals will just support them
what the deterrent in that
Zip
good luck
Rick67
Well-Known Angler
“No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country. - General George Patton”.
The President is a civilian and never has total control. Thought you were smarter then that. We learned after Patton caved to FDR and let the commies of Europe take Germany after Germany tried to surrender to The Americans. It caused hundreds of thousands to be murdered as well as millions of rapes by the Russians throughout Europe and that wasn’t German lives but mostly Poles. Patton was able to manipulate adversary armies to fight one another. Pretty slick as is Berger.
Remember you follow the science. Fauci said masks don’t work and the vaccine inventor said don’t take it as well as the FDA.
So Marines are Neanderthals? Does that mean scientists are all womanizers? You guys all quote Albert Einstein and he slept with everyone but his wife. You must be like him, no?
@Rick67 for your personal education, I've attached a copy of the Constitution of the United States, along with the amendments. You must remember this, that little ditty that everyone in the armed services, and all sarcasm aside, Thank You for your service, takes an oath to defend.
I'd like you to pay attention to Article 2, Section 2:
I'd like you to pay attention to Article 2, Section 2:
Section 2
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
wader
Well-Known Angler
COVID-stricken Oregon deploys National Guard to hospitals
Oregon’s governor said Friday she will send up to 1,500 National Guard troops to hospitals around the state to assist healthcare workers who are being pushed to the brink by a surge of COVID-19 cases driven by the Delta variant. Gov. Kate Brown, a Democrat, said the first group of 500 Guard...
Rick67
Well-Known Angler
That’s good to know if ever someone is in need of a pardon but he isn’t the decision maker. He’s merely bares the burden of responsibility.
Do you think 44 had anything to do with Osama being killed. He was dying one way or another that night. The question was is it a parade photo or not. 45 got personal and pushed to get that same photo. No one complained. The guys loved him, he got things done, but he still wasn’t the reason Soleamini and Baghdadi were targeted, however he took responsibility and didn’t care who’s feelings got hurt. That’s called Covering My Six in a huge way. How many car bombings are you to believe? Just like any Board of Directors it’s a group with the man with the pen signing his name taking the fall if all goes bad, but you can keep believing what you just posted.
So if you believe that then you’ll believe I have “The Right Of The People To Bare Arms Shall Not Be Infringed” status. Well that sure as hell isn’t followed here in NY is it now.
dsedy
Well-Known Angler
Lockdowns, Masks, & The Illusion Of Government Control Over COVID
BY TYLER DURDENSATURDAY, AUG 14, 2021 - 12:30 PM
Authored by Brian McGlinchey via Stark Realities,
In the early 11th century, King Canute—while at the peak of his power—set out to demonstrate to his fawning courtiers the limited power of royal edicts. After having his throne placed by the sea’s edge, he sat down and commanded the tide to stop rising. When the water began washing over his feet, he declared, "Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings."
Nearly a thousand years later, facing a different force of nature—Covid-19—an entire global generation of presidents, prime ministers, governors, mayors, public health officials, scientists and citizens is being given the same lesson. However, where Canute’s lesson sprang from his humility, this lesson springs from the hubris of the present-day ruling class and the credulity of the masses who place far too much faith in their rulers’ power.
The lesson was pointedly driven home on July 19th. That was "Freedom Day" in the United Kingdom, with government ending restrictions on social contact, allowing the reopening of remaining establishments such as nightclubs, and abandoning mask mandates.
Two weeks before Freedom Day, as the Delta relentlessly pushed the UK’s case count higher, 122 prominent scientists and doctors submitted a letter to The Lancet calling the planned easing of restrictions "a dangerous and unethical experiment."
On the eve of Freedom Day, the UK’s daily case count was over 40,000. Imperial College London mathematical biologist Neil Ferguson told the BBC it was "almost inevitable" the end of restrictions would prompt daily cases to soar to 100,000 and perhaps even 200,000.
Mother Nature was about to deliver a harsh comeuppance to Ferguson and others who’d have us believe government restrictions and mask mandates offer a potent defense against Covid contagion: Cases promptly went into a two-week free fall.
Daily New Cases in the United Kingdom
In addition to fostering well-founded doubt about the benefits of lockdowns and face coverings, the turn of events should also cultivate healthy skepticism about the pronouncements of the public health establishment. Hopefully, Ferguson’s particular humiliation will immunize officials, journalists and citizens against trusting Imperial College London’s Covid-19 models.
Those models, which played a key role in enabling unprecedented, draconian lockdowns around the world—have been wildly wrong again and again. For example, Imperial College London projected Sweden’s relaxed approach to Covid-19 would leave nearly 100,000 Swedes dead by July 1, 2020. The actual count: 5,700.
The United States has endured its own false alarms about what will happen when government-imposed restrictions are eased. Grim predictions and accusations of gubernatorial indifference to human life accompanied the ending of restrictions and mandates in states like Iowa, Texas and Florida, and proved as wrong as the ones made in the UK last month.
Lacking Canute’s humility and undaunted by contrary evidence, the great majority of officials, scientists and pundits who’ve favored coercive government measures have proven stubbornly incapable of entertaining the possibility that these interventions—which have boosted depression, suicide, alcohol abuse, drug overdoses, domestic violence and undiagnosed cancer—aren’t a net positive for public health after all.
That resistance to contrary evidence extends to a great many everyday citizens whose unwavering support of lockdowns, business restrictions, remote schooling and mask mandates is part of a politicized tribal identity.
Exasperatingly, that tribe embraces "trust science" as a mantra, oblivious to the fact that the scientific method hinges on the reliable replication of results that supports one’s theory—something sorely lacking where lockdowns, masking and other measures are concerned.
The "trust science" crowd is likewise oblivious to the fact that scientists are far from unanimous in supporting those government-imposed nonpharmaceutical interventions (NPIs), and that highly-credentialed scientists from esteemed institutions are among the most vigorous dissenters.
The most prominent demonstration of such dissent came with the October 2020 "Great Barrington Declaration." Led by professors from Harvard, Oxford and Stanford, epidemiologists and public health scientists from around the world expressed their "grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies."
The declaration has now been signed by more than 58,000 medical and public health scientists and medical practitioners. Their numbers and credentials don’t guarantee their views are correct; however, they do bely the presumption of a scientific consensus behind coercive mitigation policies. Among three original Stanford signatories to the declaration is biophysics professor and Nobel Prize recipient Michael Levitt. He and a group of Stanford and international scholars have been analyzing Covid-19 data since January 2020.
Referring to the steep drop in cases after UK restrictions were eased, Levitt recently asked the Twitter-verse: "Can anyone show clear correlation between NPI or other restrictions & reduced COVID-19 cases anywhere? I keep trying & failing. We really need to know this to deal better with future pandemics."
continued....
dsedy
Well-Known Angler
continued from above:
Levitt isn’t the only reputable scientist who sees little if any correlation between government-imposed NPIs and Covid-19 trajectories. "We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus," said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, in a recent interview with the New York Times. "These surges have little to do with what humans do. Only recently, with vaccines, have we begun to have a real impact."
"We had record high cases, hospitalizations and deaths in January, followed by a precipitous decline throughout February and into March…this does not reflect anything to do with…human mitigation. This is the natural ebb and flow of the virus we’ve seen time and again around the world," said Osterholm on his Covid-19 podcast.
In that vein, those who exclusively attribute today’s surging case counts in southern states to lagging vaccination rates and purported local mismanagement should note that:
Over the course of the pandemic, some anti-Covid-19 measures have fallen out of favor in light of new findings and observations. For example, with the understanding that surface transmission of Covid-19 is extremely unlikely, far fewer people are wiping groceries with Clorox.
Perhaps because they’re bolted into place, the nation’s thicket of plexiglass dividers have shown more staying power, despite research indicating they may not only be futile, but could actually be making matters worse by thwarting ventilation. In March, the CDC withdrew its recommendation for barriers on school desks, but has apparently stopped short of discouraging their broad use elsewhere.
Though it’s now socially acceptable to question the use of disinfectants and plexiglass, questioning masks can get you suspended from social media and tarred as a promoter of disinformation—even when you’re citing peer-reviewed studies. However, with other widely-embraced mitigation measures fading in light of new data, intellectually honest people should be equally open to the question of whether widespread face-covering—particularly with anything other than an N-95 mask—is worthwhile.
That forbidden discussion is starting to creep into mainstream media. In a recent appearance on CNN, the University of Minnesota’s Osterholm—a former Covid-19 advisor to President Biden—caused a stir by saying, "We know today that many of the face cloth coverings that people wear are not very effective in reducing any of the virus movement in or out." That’s because Covid-19 particles are astoundingly small. Hard as it to imagine, the imperceptible gaps in surgical masks can be 1,000 times the size of a viral particle. Gaps in cloth masks are well larger than that.
Osterholman has offered a highly relatable standard by which to judge if a particular face covering serves as a meaningful barrier against particles that small: "If you were in a room with somebody smoking, would you smell it in your device that you are using?" That standard not only eliminates cloth masks, but surgical ones too.
Beyond the realities of nanoparticle science and the conclusions of previous studies, the case for masking is undermined by what we’ve observed during the pandemic. Sweden, for example, never widely embraced masking. While its per capita Covid death count is well higher than neighboring Finland and Norway, it’s the 15th lowest out of the 31 European Union countries and the UK.
If face-covering were such an essential life-saving practice, Sweden wouldn’t be found in the middle of the EU pack. It would be dead last. That said, using Covid-19 death counts alone to evaluate outcomes is problematic. Different testing protocols can mean an individual would be positive in one country and negative in another. Jurisdictions also differ in what exactly comprises a Covid-19 death—was it a death from Covid or merely with Covid?
More importantly, though, when we solely focus on Covid-19 deaths, we ignore the suicides, fatal overdoses and other unintended deaths that result from the lockdowns themselves. That’s why it’s best to compare countries using excess all-cause mortality: total deaths beyond what’s expected in a normal year. By that measure, lockdown- and mask-eschewing Sweden had one of the best 2020 excess mortality rates in all of Europe—23rd-lowest out of 30 countries.
(It again trailed Finland and Norway, but a variety of factors undermine the idea they present a full-on apples-to-apples comparison; what’s more, by some measures, Finland and Norway had even less stringent policies during the first several months of the pandemic.)
CDC is "Following the TV Pundits"
Vinay Prasad is an associate professor of medicine at the University of California San Francisco and co-author of Ending Medical Reversal: Improving Outcomes, Saving Lives. "Medical reversal" is what happens when new data shows a commonly-accepted practice is not helpful—or is actually harmful.
Decrying the lack of randomized trials backing many Covid-19 policies, Prasad recently wrote, "When it comes to non-pharmacologic interventions such as mandatory business closures, mask mandates, and countless other interventions, the shocking conclusion of the last 18 months is this: We have learned next to nothing."
Referring to the CDC’s decision to once again recommend universal indoor masking in areas of higher Covid-19 transmission, Prasad wrote, "The CDC director calls this 'following the science,' but it is not. It is following the TV pundits."
While declaring his openness to the possibility that masking can be an effective public health intervention, Prasad says mandates should be driven by evidence—and that the CDC isn’t offering any.
Prasad, who doesn’t shy away from endorsing coercive government action when he thinks it’s warranted, concludes:
Levitt isn’t the only reputable scientist who sees little if any correlation between government-imposed NPIs and Covid-19 trajectories. "We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus," said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, in a recent interview with the New York Times. "These surges have little to do with what humans do. Only recently, with vaccines, have we begun to have a real impact."
"We had record high cases, hospitalizations and deaths in January, followed by a precipitous decline throughout February and into March…this does not reflect anything to do with…human mitigation. This is the natural ebb and flow of the virus we’ve seen time and again around the world," said Osterholm on his Covid-19 podcast.
In that vein, those who exclusively attribute today’s surging case counts in southern states to lagging vaccination rates and purported local mismanagement should note that:
- The southern wave’s timing roughly parallels the region’s 2020 summer surge, which should prompt consideration that seasonality—alongside Delta’s greater transmissibility among even the vaccinated—may be the dominant driver
- While Florida is considered the new epicenter of the pandemic, the state’s vaccination rate matches the national average
- Oregon, despite an above-average vaccination rate, is experiencing its own sharp spike—but has been spared the kind of contemptuous scorn that journalists and Democratic politicians heap on Republican-led Florida
Over the course of the pandemic, some anti-Covid-19 measures have fallen out of favor in light of new findings and observations. For example, with the understanding that surface transmission of Covid-19 is extremely unlikely, far fewer people are wiping groceries with Clorox.
Perhaps because they’re bolted into place, the nation’s thicket of plexiglass dividers have shown more staying power, despite research indicating they may not only be futile, but could actually be making matters worse by thwarting ventilation. In March, the CDC withdrew its recommendation for barriers on school desks, but has apparently stopped short of discouraging their broad use elsewhere.
Though it’s now socially acceptable to question the use of disinfectants and plexiglass, questioning masks can get you suspended from social media and tarred as a promoter of disinformation—even when you’re citing peer-reviewed studies. However, with other widely-embraced mitigation measures fading in light of new data, intellectually honest people should be equally open to the question of whether widespread face-covering—particularly with anything other than an N-95 mask—is worthwhile.
That forbidden discussion is starting to creep into mainstream media. In a recent appearance on CNN, the University of Minnesota’s Osterholm—a former Covid-19 advisor to President Biden—caused a stir by saying, "We know today that many of the face cloth coverings that people wear are not very effective in reducing any of the virus movement in or out." That’s because Covid-19 particles are astoundingly small. Hard as it to imagine, the imperceptible gaps in surgical masks can be 1,000 times the size of a viral particle. Gaps in cloth masks are well larger than that.
Osterholman has offered a highly relatable standard by which to judge if a particular face covering serves as a meaningful barrier against particles that small: "If you were in a room with somebody smoking, would you smell it in your device that you are using?" That standard not only eliminates cloth masks, but surgical ones too.
Beyond the realities of nanoparticle science and the conclusions of previous studies, the case for masking is undermined by what we’ve observed during the pandemic. Sweden, for example, never widely embraced masking. While its per capita Covid death count is well higher than neighboring Finland and Norway, it’s the 15th lowest out of the 31 European Union countries and the UK.
If face-covering were such an essential life-saving practice, Sweden wouldn’t be found in the middle of the EU pack. It would be dead last. That said, using Covid-19 death counts alone to evaluate outcomes is problematic. Different testing protocols can mean an individual would be positive in one country and negative in another. Jurisdictions also differ in what exactly comprises a Covid-19 death—was it a death from Covid or merely with Covid?
More importantly, though, when we solely focus on Covid-19 deaths, we ignore the suicides, fatal overdoses and other unintended deaths that result from the lockdowns themselves. That’s why it’s best to compare countries using excess all-cause mortality: total deaths beyond what’s expected in a normal year. By that measure, lockdown- and mask-eschewing Sweden had one of the best 2020 excess mortality rates in all of Europe—23rd-lowest out of 30 countries.
(It again trailed Finland and Norway, but a variety of factors undermine the idea they present a full-on apples-to-apples comparison; what’s more, by some measures, Finland and Norway had even less stringent policies during the first several months of the pandemic.)
CDC is "Following the TV Pundits"
Vinay Prasad is an associate professor of medicine at the University of California San Francisco and co-author of Ending Medical Reversal: Improving Outcomes, Saving Lives. "Medical reversal" is what happens when new data shows a commonly-accepted practice is not helpful—or is actually harmful.
Decrying the lack of randomized trials backing many Covid-19 policies, Prasad recently wrote, "When it comes to non-pharmacologic interventions such as mandatory business closures, mask mandates, and countless other interventions, the shocking conclusion of the last 18 months is this: We have learned next to nothing."
Referring to the CDC’s decision to once again recommend universal indoor masking in areas of higher Covid-19 transmission, Prasad wrote, "The CDC director calls this 'following the science,' but it is not. It is following the TV pundits."
While declaring his openness to the possibility that masking can be an effective public health intervention, Prasad says mandates should be driven by evidence—and that the CDC isn’t offering any.
Prasad, who doesn’t shy away from endorsing coercive government action when he thinks it’s warranted, concludes:
* * *
wader
Well-Known Angler
As U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Top the Civil War’s Toll, We're Repeating Disease History
Today’s COVID-19 death toll shows that many have approached the virus with a medical attitude hardly updated from 160 years ago
The Civil War, infamous for having the highest American death toll of any war in history, was the last major American conflict before the greater public understood how diseases spread. It was therefore the last war where the bulk of the deaths—two-thirds, in fact—were not from bullets and bombs, but from viruses, parasites and bacteria. Unfortunately, today’s COVID-19 death toll shows that many have approached the virus with a medical attitude hardly updated from 160 years ago.
=================
so it's surpassed both the number lost during the Civil War & the Second World War & we argue about masks & vaccines
Very, very sad............
For someone who wants this thread shut down you just cant seem to help your self from posting in itAs U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Top the Civil War’s Toll, We're Repeating Disease History
Today’s COVID-19 death toll shows that many have approached the virus with a medical attitude hardly updated from 160 years agowww.yahoo.com
The Civil War, infamous for having the highest American death toll of any war in history, was the last major American conflict before the greater public understood how diseases spread. It was therefore the last war where the bulk of the deaths—two-thirds, in fact—were not from bullets and bombs, but from viruses, parasites and bacteria. Unfortunately, today’s COVID-19 death toll shows that many have approached the virus with a medical attitude hardly updated from 160 years ago.
=================
so it's surpassed both the number lost during the Civil War & the Second World War & we argue about masks & vaccines
Very, very sad............
TonySmjc
Well-Known Angler
We argue over effectiveness and we argue over the governments right to impose things upon us
mask don’t work .
Vaccines may , for a time but seemingly a very short time so now it’s going to be how often are u willing to get the jab
please do try to exxplain to me how I’ve not worn a mask unless forced which is very rarely and then never properly and never even improperly unless being diligently hounded by a stewardess
Don’t I have it or anti bodies for it
It’s been 18 months something isn’t right
As a rule I’m the guy that catch’s every cold or bug that comes down the pike and they all kick my butt
mask don’t work .
Vaccines may , for a time but seemingly a very short time so now it’s going to be how often are u willing to get the jab
please do try to exxplain to me how I’ve not worn a mask unless forced which is very rarely and then never properly and never even improperly unless being diligently hounded by a stewardess
Don’t I have it or anti bodies for it
It’s been 18 months something isn’t right
As a rule I’m the guy that catch’s every cold or bug that comes down the pike and they all kick my butt
📱 Fish Smarter with the NYAngler App!
Launch Now
Launch Now
Latest articles
-
The SALTIGA RevolutionCaptain Sal's Saltwater Corner: The SALTIGA Revolution By Captain Sal Wavechaser, 30-year...- george
- Updated:
- 9 min read
-
Time to End Stop and Frisk on the WaterLet’s be clear. This stop and frisk mentality on the water needs to end. When did we decide it's...
- george
- Updated:
- 2 min read
-
Fishing for Cobia in New York WatersCobia Fishing in New York: Tips for Reeling in the Prized Catch Cobia fishing is very popular in...
- george
- Updated:
- 10 min read
-
Cobia in New York - A New FrontierCobia in New York: A New Frontier for Northeast Anglers Explore how Cobia are expanding their...
- george
- Updated:
- 10 min read
-
Offshore Wind Farm Construction Effects on Bottom FishOffshore Wind Farm Construction Effects on Bottom Fish and Commercial Fishing: What the Science...- Susie Angler
- Updated:
- 5 min read