Coronavirus

Now he comes around and decides

keeping the economy closed isn’t workable or sustainable

hmmm someone I knows been preaching that for months and months and months

just can’t put my finger on ....Oh yea that’s been me

oh yea and I agree he’s a jackass but that’s a title that can be pretty freely passed around
 
So I just saw on the news that the vaccine doesn't mean you cannot get it, it just means you are prepped better to fight it, but you are still a transmitter? WTF?
 
I'm confused
It's OK to take what the NYT reports as gospel if it goes against the hated governor? ??
it sucks being old and confused like me LOL
 
movetheboat said:
Damn was it good?
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movetheboat said:
So I just saw on the news that the vaccine doesn't mean you cannot get it, it just means you are prepped better to fight it, but you are still a transmitter? WTF?
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Absolutely true UNTIL we actually have data on hand to demonstrate to the counter. The initial vaccine trials do not really test these parameters, along with how long the immunity will last. These are the things that take time to answer.

Got to run and do something, but I'll try to explain this all. It's a bit complicated.
 
OK, here we go, Vaccines 101. Fair warning, there's going to be a lot of stuff here you don't want to hear, sorry. Go ahead shoot the messenger if you'd like. I hope I transcribed this in a legible manner. It's all second nature to folk like me, and I hope I've made the key points understandable.

Some Basic Facts regarding vaccines, COVID and Herd Immunity. If you want more info, PM me with your questions, but please understand the fact that the basics of stopping the spread of airborne infectious agents like flu and COVID-19, vaccines not withstanding, dictate hygiene, masks and social distancing. These items aren't going away anytime soon and the info below should help explain why.
  • These vaccines, like most, are NOT a body shield that stops the virus from entering your body, that's something that masks, social distancing, hygiene and staying away from crowds do. Long before SARS and COVID-19, Asians have felt the need to mask whenever they were feeling ill and had to go out in public as a requirement of being a responsible citizen. All of us in the West can learn from that example.

  • Now what exactly is meant by "infection."
    • Some will argue that inhaling a single COVID-19 virus constitutes an infection. Others will argue that you're not "infected" until you are "infectious", passing virus along to others. Yet others will argue you're not "infected" until you symptomatic. This is a semantics game that epidemiologists debate over beer.

    • Part of the problem here is the exquisite sensitivity of the diagnostic PCR test and how many cycles you run the test for. If there is a single chunk of viral RNA on a test swab and the test is run for 20 cycles (bare minimum) that single sequence will be multiplied into 524,288 (2 to the 19th power). Run it for 30 cycles and it will be 537 million sequences, and if you run the "high sensitivity" 40 cycle test it's 550 BILLION sequences. PCR a biochemist's tool for finding a needle in a haystack. If it's here, we'll find it.

    • Obviously the more virus you breathe in, the more likely you'll be getting sick and the more sick if you have more virus. Once inside you what happens? Well the virus does what it has evolved to do, tries to find the proper host cell and get inside by using it's spike proteins to bind to a protein on the host cell wall. Once inside it sticks its genetic code into the cell's and commandeers the cell to make more virus and once they're ready to leave the cell, the cell is broken open and virus spills out to infect other cells. If your immune system gets overwhelmed, you die.
  • So what happens in a vaccinated person?
    • A vaccinated person has an immune system preprogrammed to fight off a COVID infection, including an array of antibodies to COVID. Hopefully a vaccinated person's immune system is now strong enough to fight off an infection before that person even feels sick. As soon as the body detects the COVID-19 virus, these antibodies, along with myriad of other immune responses will be mounted to fight off the infection. The vaccines make this process go more quickly because the body has already programmed the immune cells to stand watch for this invasion and the antibodies are already prepared, BUT you will be having an infection and will probably have some viral replication going on so vaccinated or not, you will be shedding virus and you WILL BE INFECTIOUS!

    • 5 out of every 100 vaccinated will get COVID-19 and get sick, and they will certainly be very infectious to others, this is the easy one.

    • What about the 95 folks who didn't get sick? Well remember the old term "Asymptomatic Transmission"? It's going to raise it's head again because there will be asymptomatic transmission of COVID from vaccinated folks who can keep their infection to down to asymptomatic levels. Now how many of the 95 will be doing this, we just don't know at this time so EVERYONE, vaccinated or not, needs to wear a mask until the pandemic runs its course.
  • And now the good news, at this point it appears that the chances of a vaccinated person getting so sick that they will need critical care is ZERO, so COVID is no longer a potential death sentence for those vaccinated. The vaccine is not a "NFW I'll get COVID so I don't have to worry about masks, social distancing, etc." Card, but more of a "Stay out of the Hospital" Card.

  • What about Herd Immunity, how does this stop the virus? Once at least 70% of all folks, 80% or more is better, have been vaccinated virus escaping from an infectious person starts having a hard time to find hosts that will get sick enough to pass the virus along. So the virus has run its course. Until we achieve Herd Immunity so the virus burns itself out, it should continue to be masks and social distancing at a minimum when out in public. Being vaccinated will give folks the ease of mind in knowing that they won't end up in an ICU staring at the Grim Reaper with none of their loved ones to comfort them in their final moments.
 
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Greatly appreciate your post.

Not really a medical question but more of a societal question.

It ‘seems’ as of now, a lot of folks are stating that they will opt out of the vaccination. If we can’t reach the 70 - 80 % level do we just let the cards fall as they may and let nature run its course? It may have to come to that. :( Lockdowns can’t go on forever.
 
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WhatKnot said:
Greatly appreciate your post.

Not really a medical question but more of a societal question.

It ‘seems’ as of now, a lot of folks are stating that they will opt out of the vaccination. If we can’t reach the 70 - 80 % level do we just let the cards fall as they may and let nature run its course? It may have to come to that. :( Lockdowns can’t go on forever.
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It will be up to Public Health Officials to convince a vast majority of our fellow citizens to get vaccinated. There will always be a few people who legitimately have medical reasons not to get vaccinated, and this number is easily absorbed by Herd Immunity. Other who refuse "just because" are jeopardizing their friends, family and neighbors.

In my twisted vision of a perfect world, those not vaccinated "just because" would carry an ID card so in areas where medical care is in short supply they can go to the end of the line, a Machiavellian attempt to "fixing stupid".
 
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