Fluke, sea bass and scup

[Bassmaster]

Technically you would be in violation as it's a"possession" law. Once you have more fish in your vehicle than a state allows you have broken the law. As crazy as that may sound.

That is insane

 

[captmike28]

I am not an attorney, but as Capt FP noted, fishing the North Fork I do have the capacity to fish 3 different states in a given day. The way I understand the law and as it has been explained to me by the DEC, your home port determines the regulations you must follow. As painful as it is to watch CT registered boats take Sea Bass in our waters while our season is closed, as long as they take the fish back to a CT port, they are in compliance.

And what Capt FP mentioned about being in transit, both on the water and in your car, I believe is also true. Using Tog as the example, if I fish in the LI Sound north of the "NY Bight region line", my bag limit is 3pp per day. However, if I move south of that line, say south of Fishers or south of Plum, I am now in the 4 fish zone. However, if I start fishing just south of the LIS/NY Bight line and take 4 fish then move north, even if just running, I am now breaking the law. So, in this case it is both a case of home port and your physical location at the time you are boarded.

Regarding Basmaster's question, if you go to NJ while the NY season is closed but have a receipt from the NJ based Party/Charter boat and get stopped by the DEC you are in compliance. I know it sounds crazy to think you might be stopped in your car by the DEC, but I have heard stories of this actually happening, although rarely.

When you need a lawyer to help you interpret the regulations because they are this complex you know things are really screwed up!

 

[Bassmaster]

I am not an attorney, but as Capt FP noted, fishing the North Fork I do have the capacity to fish 3 different states in a given day. The way I understand the law and as it has been explained to me by the DEC, your home port determines the regulations you must follow. As painful as it is to watch CT registered boats take Sea Bass in our waters while our season is closed, as long as they take the fish back to a CT port, they are in compliance.

And what Capt FP mentioned about being in transit, both on the water and in your car, I believe is also true. Using Tog as the example, if I fish in the LI Sound north of the "NY Bight region line", my bag limit is 3pp per day. However, if I move south of that line, say south of Fishers or south of Plum, I am now in the 4 fish zone. However, if I start fishing just south of the LIS/NY Bight line and take 4 fish then move north, even if just running, I am now breaking the law. So, in this case it is both a case of home port and your physical location at the time you are boarded.

Regarding Basmaster's question, if you go to NJ while the NY season is closed but have a receipt from the NJ based Party/Charter boat and get stopped by the DEC you are in compliance. I know it sounds crazy to think you might be stopped in your car by the DEC, but I have heard stories of this actually happening, although rarely.

When you need a lawyer to help you interpret the regulations because they are this complex you know things are really screwed up!

Thank you for this info. It is truly insane. I enjoy eating fish. All I am looking for is food for the dinner table. So from what your saying when NJ Sea bass season is open and ny is closed they can fish in New York waters and keep bass.

 

[captmike28]

Yes, Bassmaster that is my understanding. Obviously, there are many common bodies of water fished by boats form different states. You are supposed to follow the rules associated with your state of registration and home port. So, in the NY Bight area there is the overlap of NY and NJ boats while in the LIS and the Peconics we see both NY and CT boats fishing the same waters with different regs. Pretty sick if you ask me.

 

[Bassmaster]

Yes, Bassmaster that is my understanding. Obviously, there are many common bodies of water fished by boats form different states. You are supposed to follow the rules associated with your state of registration and home port. So, in the NY Bight area there is the overlap of NY and NJ boats while in the LIS and the Peconics we see both NY and CT boats fishing the same waters with different regs. Pretty sick if you ask me.

Agree

 

[Chinacat]

Yes, Bassmaster that is my understanding. Obviously, there are many common bodies of water fished by boats form different states. You are supposed to follow the rules associated with your state of registration and home port. So, in the NY Bight area there is the overlap of NY and NJ boats while in the LIS and the Peconics we see both NY and CT boats fishing the same waters with different regs. Pretty sick if you ask me.

So without spot burning or getting too specific ?, the fairly popular waters around Fishers Island are in NY correct, but are frequented by boats coming from NY, CT and RI all fishing alongside each other playing by different rules??

 

[captmike28]

Youa are correct, Mitch. Although Fishers I is part of NY the neighboring states have their own regs to watch. What is really crazy is the dividing line between the LIS zone and the NY Bight zone. It is a line drawn from Orient Point to Watch Hill RI. So, as I mentioned in a former post if I stay on the Sound side of the line my daily bag limit is 3pp. As soon as I move just south of Fishers or Plum, I am in the 4 fish pp zone. There have been trips where we limited in the Sound and then went to fish south of the line so the fares could take one more fish pp.

Then things get even crazier since the LIS zone opens on Oct 11 and the NY Bight on Oct 15. Since my boat is docked in Greenport, south of the line, technically even if I am fishing the Sound from 10/11-10/14 , once I head south of the line to head back to port, I am breaking the law.!

 

[Chinacat]

Youa are correct, Mitch. Although Fishers I is part of NY the neighboring states have their own regs to watch. What is really crazy is the dividing line between the LIS zone and the NY Bight zone. It is a line drawn from Orient Point to Watch Hill RI. So, as I mentioned in a former post if I stay on the Sound side of the line my daily bag limit is 3pp. As soon as I move just south of Fishers or Plum, I am in the 4 fish pp zone. There have been trips where we limited in the Sound and then went to fish south of the line so the fares could take one more fish pp.

Then things get even crazier since the LIS zone opens on Oct 11 and the NY Bight on Oct 15. Since my boat is docked in Greenport, south of the line, technically even if I am fishing the Sound from 10/11-10/14 , once I head south of the line to head back to port, I am breaking the law.!

Wow
Dealing with all that while focusing on wind, tides, anchoring, and everything else that comes with just running the boat and tending to the customers!
Thats why we all have so much respect for what you do and the operation you run!!??????

 

[captmike28]

Wow
Dealing with all that while focusing on wind, tides, anchoring, and everything else that comes with just running the boat and tending to the customers!
Thats why we all have so much respect for what you do and the operation you run!!??????

Thanks very much, Mitch. You know I always give 110% effort. Maybe 115% for the folks I like, yourself included!!!

 

[poorrichard]

The laws are basically about possession. I fish the Port Jeff area. If I cross into Connecticut waters fish legally caught in NY may be closed/illegal in Connecticut and visa versa.

The last few seasons blackfish opened in NY before Conn. If i caught legal black fish in NY and crossed in Conn waters I am now in possession of fish during the closed season in Conn.

Basically the states need to have consistent seasons and bag limits which will never happen

 

[CaptFP]

Both states in LIS should be same season dates and bag for less confusion. Last fall Connecticut blackfish opened on Oct 10th while NY opened Oct 11th.

 

[captmike28]

Both states in LIS should be same season dates and bag for less confusion. Last fall Connecticut blackfish opened on Oct 10th while NY opened Oct 11th.

Agree!!

 

[george]

Regarding Basmaster's question, if you go to NJ while the NY season is closed but have a receipt from the NJ based Party/Charter boat and get stopped by the DEC you are in compliance. I know it sounds crazy to think you might be stopped in your car by the DEC, but I have heard stories of this actually happening, although rarely.

When you need a lawyer to help you interpret the regulations because they are this complex you know things are really screwed up!

I know someone who went to Montauk for a few days of surf fishing. His first night he caught a 42 pound bass which he kept. The next night he caught another about the same size. When he left Dec had a check point and he was summonsed for having two bass in possession. They took both fish but they eventually drop the fines.

 

[Roccus7]

I know someone who went to Montauk for a few days of surf fishing. His first night he caught a 42 pound bass which he kept. The next night he caught another about the same size. When he left Dec had a check point and he was summonsed for having two bass in possession. They took both fish but they eventually drop the fines.

Was he from NJ, the state that loves to circumvent rules, or was he from NY? Either way dropping the fines is ludicrous...

 

[longcast]

I know someone who went to Montauk for a few days of surf fishing. His first night he caught a 42 pound bass which he kept. The next night he caught another about the same size. When he left Dec had a check point and he was summonsed for having two bass in possession. They took both fish but they eventually drop the fines.

In the early 90's I spent a considerable amount of time in Montauk. At times it was living the dream in the Jeep with a cooler on the front. My understanding was always possession and NOT whether it was caught yesterday or today.

 

[pequa1]

Federal fisheries regulators are calling for reductions of 21% to 33% in the recreational quota for two locally popular fish, black sea bass and porgies, but a top state marine official has labeled the measures "unnecessary."
From our local "Snoozeday" earlier in the week:

"Under a plan expected to roll out this spring, regulators at the National Marine Fisheries Service, which manages marine resources within 200 nautical miles from the U.S. coastline, are requesting measures aimed at reducing the recreational harvest of black sea bass by up to 21%.

For porgies, also known as scup, the reduction would be as much as 33%.

The measures were recommended by an interstate fishery management council after meetings in December and February.

In New York State, the new quota would mean increasing the size of keeper scup by 1 inch, to 10 inches, in addition to new unspecified restrictions on taking the fish in federal waters.

Limitations on the keeper size for black sea bass could increase from the current 15 inches to 16.

Changes in daily catch limits and even the season they can be caught are possible, according to three options federal officials are contemplating.

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However, the federal plan calls for easing the quota for summer flounder, after years of tightened restrictions that anglers have criticized harshly.

Regulators are eyeing a potentially longer season and a smaller minimum keeper fish size of 18 inches or 18.5 inches, compared with 19 inches now, according to options released by the state.

Reducing the fish size makes it easier for anglers to catch allowable fish.

In a letter to the National Marine Fisheries Service, Jim Gilmore, director the state Department of Environmental Conservation's marine resources division, called the proposed changes in black sea bass and scup quotas "unnecessary," given their populations are "healthy" and "robust."

Gilmore asked the agency to send a representative to a meeting on Tuesday with fishing interests to explain the need for the changes.

Allison Ferreira, a spokeswoman for the federal Greater Atlantic Regional Fisheries Office who responded for the fisheries service, said the service had received Gilmore's letter.

But Ferreira noted the service had not yet published a formal rule seeking public comment on recommendations by the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council, one of eight regional councils that manage fisheries within federal waters, that the new quotas be established.

"Given a robust conversation already occurred regarding these two quotas over the course of two council meetings, we will unlikely heed their [the DEC's] request," Ferreira said in a statement to Newsday.

A DEC spokeswoman declined to comment beyond Gilmore's letter.

In his letter, Gilmore said he and his staff were finding it "difficult to explain why we must" tighten quotas when the black sea bass and porgy stocks are healthy.

He said neither he nor other state fisheries directors "understand the reasoning [or] the lack of discretion" by the federal agency "in implementing what we believe to be unnecessary reductions."

"These changes will result in significant and unnecessary economic impacts to an industry trying to recover from the COVID pandemic," Gilmore wrote.

"They will also undermine federal and state management credibility since it appears we are simply following statutory mandates that run contrary to current stock conditions, state fishery management expertise and the insights of the fishing community," Gilmore said.

Steve Witthuhn, a Montauk charterboat captain, said the proposed measures could harm fish the federal agency is trying to protect.

"Going to a bigger fish is just putting more grease on the pole," he said, requiring more effort to catch the bigger keeper fish.

"I could probably catch another 30, 40 throw-back fish just to meet that 16-inch limit," on sea bass, Witthuhn said."

By Mark Harrington[email protected] @MHarringtonNews
Mark Harrington, a Newsday reporter since 1999, covers energy, wineries, Indian affairs and fisheries.

while I caught three or four times as many keeper weaks than I did fluke in 2021, I still heard of many catching multitudes of sea bass and porgy although not in my backbay waters. while I expect the gubmint to get things wrong at least half the time, am I missing something in the article or is it just the alleged experts and authorities getting everything ass backward again ? (allowing more fluke to be kept but less seabass and scup?)

 

[MakoMike]

FWIW the ASMFC's fluke, sea bass and scup boat will be meeting on March 24th starting at 10:30 AM on this subject. You can register for the meeting on the ASMFC's website.

 

[Bassmaster]

I did much better with fluke than previous years. If it was an 18 inch limit i would of had several keepers

 

[Fluke Whisperer]

I did much better with fluke than previous years. If it was an 18 inch limit i would of had several keepers

Ya, my son and I caught some very fat 17 to 18.5" fluke last year, that's why I'm all for 3 fish at 18" and a slot limit.
The bigger fish don't taste as good as the smaller ones imo, let the big ones go and keep the smaller ones.
I remember when 17" was legal, I don't care for scup, their great to catch on light tackle, cbass I like but you need to have fish in the 4lb range and up to get any size fillet out of them.
It will be interesting to see how these proposals pan out.

 

[pequa1]

I could not agree with you more. Would b fine with a two fish limit on fluke and a slot. For the braggarts, a quick pic and back they go. If they can’t feed the family with two fluke they need to bring someone along lol. Unfortunately I remember when the fluke limit was 14" and the belly was basically just good for bait on those.